Excelsior Grads - Do You Think Online Nursing Is In Jeopardy? What State Are You In?

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Aug 20, 2008

You're fortunate. Quite a few Excelsior grads in California are finding many hospitals and nursing registries will not employ them. It doesn't matter if they passed their boards and have license in hand.

This is absolutely not true. I challenge you to find one recent EC grad in CA. There are none, because EC makes it very plain and clear that they are not accepted in CA.

Baloney Amputation, BSN, LPN, RN · Aug 20, 2008

If they enrolled before the cutoff date and have maintained their yearly SSAF, they are still good with the CA BON. The date was in December 2003 (I believe) to be enrolled by to be cool wtih CA; since that is only nearly 5 years ago, there are still potentially a few recent EC students and grads out there.

ivanh3 · Aug 20, 2008

You're fortunate. Quite a few Excelsior grads in California are finding many hospitals and nursing registries will not employ them. It doesn't matter if they passed their boards and have license in hand.

When I was a paramedic tech in Colorado (which also quit accepting EC new grads BTW) I was told by my dept director that they would not hire any EC grads (there were 2 EC students working for her at the time). This was ironic because both of us EC students participated in the training of new grad RNs, paramedic techs were high functioning in that ER (the only thing we really couldn't do was IV titrates, and hang blood) AND the hospital was paying our EC tuition and fees! As I mentioned in an another post, perception is everything, and the perception of EC at many hospitals (not all, maybe even not most) is that EC grads are weaker than traditional grads. Valid or not, that is the way it is.

I moved to GA before it became a personal issue, and I found a mixed review of EC students. Grady Memorial was glad to have me, Emory said they would only consider it because I was also a Grady paramedic. I was told all other factors being equal they would prefer to take a grad from a traditional school as opposed to EC. Not that they wouldn't, but they would prefer not to. How lukewarm/wishy washy is that?

Nursing instructors are nuts and evil. Usually.

Nursing school instructors are for the most part evil, vindictive people, for some reason unknown to normal folks.
Maura

I hate to hear that, and I am sorry your experience with nursing instructors has been so dismal. I have to say almost without exception my nursing instructors have all been incredible. I have discussed this with my wife, and she speaks very highly of her instructors as well. I know there are nursing educators/teachers that post here and have been most helpful.

What I would challenge you guys to do is that after you guys pass boards is to get involved with the local nursing education process (if you are not already involved) and change the face of nursing eduction.

Melinurse · Aug 21, 2008

I think there is a lot of lack of understanding in the " general population " about distance learning. And a few " bad apples " have spoiled it for others and added to the " misunderstanding ". You can have good or bad new graduates from traditional schools as well. Believe me I have seen a few from a local college here who are ( were ) scary when they started. Most people/employers don't know that most EC grads have been in the medical field for a while before being accepted. They don't know how creative, resourceful, and independent we must be to get where we are. Those qualities don't make a good nurse though, they make the type of qualities a great nurse will have. I am proud to be an EC grad.

I took 3 and a half semesters at a traditional school for nursing and they " kicked me out " for missing too many clinicals. ( I missed 2 ) I had a 3.9 GPA. They were not understanding of my having a disabled child. EC was the only way I could get my RN. My only regret is that I did not know about EC earlier.

If a state chooses not to have EC grads, fine, it's their loss. But that state will be even shorter of good qualified nurses. :cry: I hope BONs will reconsider or restructure criteria to allow for distance learning to continue.

serenity67 · Aug 21, 2008

]I TOTALLY agree with you about there being a complete misunderstanding about distance learning programs like EC, both with the reasons WHY it is the only avenue for some, as well as how qualified you have to be to even pass the program in it's entirety. I'm still trying to figure out the "few bad apples" part... does anyone have record of EC graduates being any less qualified than a new RN grad? Is there documentation to support this argument?

]

]Here in VA, the BON is hung up on a specific NUMBER of clinical hours in the curriculum. Their new law requires a minimum of 400 hours for LPN's and a minimum of 500 hours for RN's. I was just "curious" so I did the math for my personal situation and here is what I came up with:

]

]Clinical hours in my LPN curriculum= 659 hrs.

Clinical hours WORKED IN THE FIELD= 39,569 hrs.

]TOTAL COMBINED= 40,228 hours

]this makes the new law look EVEN MORE REDICULOUS when my experience written out in this form!

Editorial Team / Moderator · Aug 21, 2008

This is absolutely not true. I challenge you to find one recent EC grad in CA. There are none, because EC makes it very plain and clear that they are not accepted in CA.

I know two, actually ... they've been enrolled since before the 12/2003 deadline, and they both just passed the CPNE recently. One is a psych tech/LPN and the other is a helicopter medic. :) They will both be able to take the NCLEX and be licensed directly in CA. But folks like them will become more rare as we get further out from the 12/2003 date because enrollments will expire.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Aug 21, 2008

I taught at a LPN program and I know the clinical experience is very intense, but I only was able to teach PN practice, no IV push meds, no ICU, no telemetry etc . I do feel my student got great experience better than some RNs,but it was in the scope of the LPN.

I do feel the credit for the LPN is needed, I think the BON and excelsior should be able to come up with an agreement since it is the public that suffers.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Aug 21, 2008

I know two, actually ... they've been enrolled since before the 12/2003 deadline, and they both just passed the CPNE recently. One is a psych tech/LPN and the other is a helicopter medic. :) They will both be able to take the NCLEX and be licensed directly in CA. But folks like them will become more rare as we get further out from the 12/2003 date because enrollments will expire.

Oh- well, I stand corrected then. I hadn't thought about people who might take 5 years to finish. Makes sense...duh.

I'm still wondering what Peanut's personal experience with EC is, though.

KellyCCRN · Aug 21, 2008

I taught at a LPN program and I know the clinical experience is very intense, but I only was able to teach PN practice, no IV push meds, no ICU, no telemetry etc . I do feel my student got great experience better than some RNs,but it was in the scope of the LPN.
I do feel the credit for the LPN is needed, I think the BON and excelsior should be able to come up with an agreement since it is the public that suffers.

So much of that varies from state to state....In GA depending on the facility LPN's have a larger scope of practice than in a lot of other states. Even as an LPN I was taught IV push ect...I am currently working float pool and work ICU and Tele. Heck I pulled a fem line today. In my facility the only thing we don't do is the initial admission assessment or careplan

Editorial Team / Moderator · Aug 21, 2008

Oh- well, I stand corrected then. I hadn't thought about people who might take 5 years to finish. Makes sense...duh.

LOL! That's because you are speedy; I'll bet EC didn't take you long at all! I still am amused that I completed the EC program one year, one month, and one day after my first EC exam. Hee.

Grapenut · Aug 21, 2008

I taught at a LPN program and I know the clinical experience is very intense, but I only was able to teach PN practice, no IV push meds, no ICU, no telemetry etc . I do feel my student got great experience better than some RNs,but it was in the scope of the LPN.
I do feel the credit for the LPN is needed, I think the BON and excelsior should be able to come up with an agreement since it is the public that suffers.

In LPN school in Georgia we do push IV meds. At the end of the LPN course and before we graduate, we choose an area of the hospital to precept in. I precepted in ICU for 3 weeks, not with my teacher but with the RN working in ICU, and did everything they do in ICU (under the supervision of my preceptor, of course) as if I worked that unit. That's almost as many clinical hours as Georgia RNs have to have in their whole course. We got to choose which area we precepted in. Most of my class chose ER or Med-Surg. Only 2 of us did ICU. The only thing we don't do is hang blood - which is kind of a joke because the RNs come spike the blood and hit the button, walk out of the room, and it's the LPN left watching to make sure the patient is okay. Many LPNs at the hospital where I work are ACLS certified. That's why this decision by the GBON is such a FARCE! They know how LPNs are trained in this state. :banghead: But don't get me started again.

strengthcouragewisdm · Aug 21, 2008

This is absolutely not true. I challenge you to find one recent EC grad in CA. There are none, because EC makes it very plain and clear that they are not accepted in CA.

This statement is NOT true. In fact, grads of EC who have 50% or more supervised clinical/lab/community experience in a traditional RN program with 1-2 years experience as an RN can apply for licensure by endorsement in California. In fact, I know two who work traveling to California. And no it didn't take them 5 years to complete the program. Claifornia is looking for the supervised clinical compenent and RN experience. California evaluates students like this on a case by case basis. This can be verified with the EC state boards office, unless something has changed in the last 24 hours.