Evolution and Nursing

MidLifeRN2012 · Mar 9, 2015

Creation all the way. The "Big Bang" needed a Big Banger.

How hard is that to figure out?

stevosmusic · Mar 9, 2015

Gooselady said:
I've met a few individuals who don't appear to have that internal moral compass . . . but I agree with you in general, that morals sort of naturally occur and come from 'within' as a person is parented with their parent's morals and then encounter the morals of the society they live in.
Morals don't seem to come ONLY from a religious tradition. I see our morals as developing as we humans develop over time, it is a progressive development that is impacted by our growing knowledge base, our technology, how tightly we're crammed in together sharing limited resources, and so forth. If only Biblical morals were considered 'real' or 'true' morals, we'd still be stoning adulterers. Now we just idolize them in movies and books .
This whole thread is interesting, it's like 'evolution' is this . . . thing, like an opponent's belief system. All evolution is is a theory about how life forms develop and are shaped by natural selection. I don't get why 'evolution' is considered even something to get into debates about. This thread could have been called "Nursing and Quantum Mechanics" and made as much sense -- except who doesn't know 'evolution' has been taken as a threat to religious doctrine.

Haha I've met some people to that are lacking the moral area. But I agree evolution and religion are different things. I happen to believe in God and evolution. I don't see why the two can't coexist.

macawake, MSN · Mar 9, 2015

MidLifeRN2012 said:
Creation all the way. The "Big Bang" needed a Big Banger.
How hard is that to figure out?

In my case, infinitely difficult ?

You see the question I ask is, how did your "Big Banger" come into existence in the first place?

cayenne06, MSN, CNM · Mar 10, 2015

MidLifeRN2012 said:
Creation all the way. The "Big Bang" needed a Big Banger.
How hard is that to figure out?

The laws of physics allow for the creation of "something" out of "nothing." There is plenty of room for a creator if you choose to believe in one, but it is NOT necessary to explain the existence of our universe.

Gooselady, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2015

MidLifeRN2012 said:
Creation all the way. The "Big Bang" needed a Big Banger.
How hard is that to figure out?

How hard is what to figure out?

So far, science (in all its manifestations) has been able to discover and understand the natural causes for many things once attributed to gods (like thunder and Thor).

I get the impression that some segments of Christianity and Islam feel 'threatened' by scientists finding naturalistic causes for how life developed on Planet Earth, or how the universe might have come to be. As if the whole premise of both belief systems are being DELIBERATELY undermined.

Heck, scientists haven't figured out how life STARTED on Planet Earth, be it abiogenesis or really tough little microbes living in meteorites (the panspermia hypothesis) that plow into the planet. They don't claim to know what they don't know. In the great scheme of things, it is more honest, healthy and better for humanity when it's members avoid pretending to know what they don't know.

Gooselady, BSN, RN · Mar 11, 2015

cayenne06 said:
The laws of physics allow for the creation of "something" out of "nothing." There is plenty of room for a creator if you choose to believe in one, but it is NOT necessary to explain the existence of our universe.

What I'm not sure of just yet is if it is harmful, immediately or eventually, to insist upon a creator when a creator has been demonstrated to be unnecessary.

If there really IS a creator, why not discover what we can about how it all got created? I can't understand why that would threaten a creator. It might threaten a person, a human, a particularly insecure, narcissistic human . . . but some thing that created this universe ought to be a bit above such pettiness.

Red Kryptonite · Mar 11, 2015

Gooselady said:
If there really IS a creator, why not discover what we can about how it all got created? I can't understand why that would threaten a creator.

It doesn't, and no one with any sense thinks it does. Sad to say there are many "religious" people who want to put God in their little box and make Him in their image.

True faith can never be threatened by science. God is the author of all, and faith and science are just two different avenues for discovering His truth. Anything discovered by science is something God created or set in motion. Now, there are definitely ways to apply science that are immoral and dangerous, but humans have abused every gift and tool ever given them in some way, so why should greater knowledge be any different?

Real believers find no threat to God in science. The ones who do find threat to God from scientific discovery make God into a weakling. If He can't withstand the scrutiny that comes from the very intellectual gifts and free will He gave us, then He's not God.

GrumpyRN, NP · Mar 11, 2015

Red Kryptonite said:
True faith can never be threatened by science. God is the author of all, and faith and science are just two different avenues for discovering His truth. Anything discovered by science is something God created or set in motion.

While I understand that you feel this to be true they are in fact two entirely different things. Faith accepts the writings of some bronze age men who needed to find some way to explain the world about them. They then managed to convince others - usually by violence - of it's importance.

Science examines everything, throws out what is not true and changes it's mind several times as new evidence comes available.

Unfortunately what you are postulating is the "god of the gaps," or if you like, just because we don't know something does not mean you get to say "god did it."

Red Kryptonite said:
Real believers find no threat to God in science. The ones who do find threat to God from scientific discovery make God into a weakling. If He can't withstand the scrutiny that comes from the very intellectual gifts and free will He gave us, then He's not God.

Red Kryptonite · Mar 11, 2015

That poster assumes we can fit God into our own level of moral construct and understanding. His ways are not our ways, as the Bible clearly says. I don't presume to think I can understand everything, and that if I can't, that that somehow invalidates God. God invalid based on my small ability to understand? That's the ultimate hubris.

People of faith can never adequately explain this to people who refuse faith. It's a just a divide we can't bridge. As long as we stay respectful of each other, it will work out.

GrumpyRN, NP · Mar 11, 2015

Red Kryptonite said:
That poster assumes we can fit God into our own level of moral construct and understanding. His ways are not our ways, as the Bible clearly says. I don't presume to think I can understand everything, and that if I can't, that that somehow invalidates God. God invalid based on my small ability to understand? That's the ultimate hubris.

This is going to appear argumentative and aggressive, it is not meant to, it is a simple statement of how I think. It is difficult (sometimes impossible) to get the nuances of language over while writing. I completely and fully respect and accept your position and point of view.

I want to understand. That is my position. I don't care about a god who hides or "moves in mysterious ways". I want to understand the world I live in. If god exists, let him come and tell us. If he does exist then I will take my chances because from my point of view he/it/whatever has done nothing to deserve any respect whatsoever. If creation is true then why make evolution the stronger, and to me the infinitely more sensible, argument.

Red Kryptonite said:
People of faith can never adequately explain this to people who refuse faith. It's a just a divide we can't bridge.

Oh no, I understand faith. I was brought up in a church family. My mother, in her 80's, still attends church every Sunday. I did all the church stuff but moved away as I grew up.

Red Kryptonite said:
As long as we stay respectful of each other, it will work out.

At the risk of seeming facetious, ' Amen sister/brother. :yes:

Red Kryptonite · Mar 11, 2015

GrumpyRN said:
If god exists, let him come and tell us.

He did.

GrumpyRN said:
If creation is true then why make evolution the stronger, and to me the infinitely more sensible, argument.

You're assuming that creation vs. evolution is a battle. Some people make it one unnecessarily. God created everything and started all the processes. The fossil record and archaeology/anthropology/geology give us some pretty clear indicators of our own history as a species. Those aren't lies placed to fool believers and accepting them in no way diminishes faith. At least it shouldn't. They are merely sign posts on the road of discovery. What we discover is still God's work. It's possible to recognize that some things in the Bible are metaphorical and allegorical, yet still believe that it's true in a deeper sense.

GrumpyRN, NP · Mar 11, 2015

Red Kryptonite said:
He did.

Where? When? Again faith is required to accept this - I require independent proof and unfortunately I cannot accept the bible as proof of itself.

Red Kryptonite said:
You're assuming that creation vs. evolution is a battle. Some people make it one unnecessarily. God created everything and started all the processes. The fossil record and archaeology/anthropology/geology give us some pretty clear indicators of our own history as a species. Those aren't lies placed to fool believers and accepting them in no way diminishes faith. At least it shouldn't. They are merely sign posts on the road of discovery. What we discover is still God's work. It's possible to recognize that some things in the Bible are metaphorical and allegorical, yet still believe that it's true in a deeper sense.

No, no, there is no 'battle' in my mind. Evolution is fact, creation is a nice story to tell the children around a nomadic camp fire.

Perhaps 'god' did start the whole process. However I think it is about time he put in an appearance to prove it. I for one have a lot of questions to ask him.

I would think that almost everything in the bible is allegory or metaphor. It is certainly not history.

We can go around and around this forever and we wont convince each other of our version of the 'truth' and I don't want to - one of us will get really, really upset and it will degenerate into a slanging match. Or more likely the thread will get closed down. As I stated earlier, I accept that you have your beliefs and I respect them, I just don't agree with them. This does not make either of us bad people.

Keep well.