Euthanasia is a very touchy subject, especially within the medical field. As a healthcare advocate, it is our job as professionals to better the lives of our patients. What happens when there is nothing more you can do?
I understand, being a Home Health Aide that works a lot with Hospice, that comfort care is important. But truly, when a suffering patient looks to you to ease the pain what do you do? Should you apologize and say their is nothing more I can do?
I can hardly say no more treats to my cat when he gives puppy dog eyes, much less a patient dying alone of cancer. In my opinion, for what it is worth, Euthanasia is most certainly not murder and should never be referred to as such.
If Euthanasia was legal, but very strict in regulations and rules, it would be very beneficial to many terminally ill patients. This may be the only healthcare decision a patient makes within their life, and they should be allowed to make such a decision when conditions permit. We all have choices in this world, what gives you or I the right to take such choices away from someone in such a situation.
What is your opinion? Do you agree or disagree? Do you have a story, personal or not that pertains to this topic?
Though this site seems to have a large proportion of people who think otherwise, most of the public agrees with me.
Think of this: suicide and basically having mental illness is illegal... the police can involuntarily check people into psych wards if they are "a danger to self or others" in their opinion, or they can even get locked in one if they are considered "gravely disabled" by some authority. The POLICE come and pick people up.
Euthanasia is assisted suicide. Because it is by a healthcare provider, it is not longer illegal? Attempting suicide is illegal or even THINKING about it (having thoughts) is illegal, so is being labeled with a mental illness, police can put them involuntarily into psych wards and commit them, restrain them, ect. Dr. Kevorkian went to jail. I guess because you're a healthcare provider, and not a patient, you can't be committed to a ward, restrained, (they can even take a person to court and turn them into a ward of state), for an 'Ide, or thinking about it, other people are constantly by the police.
There's a movie called "They Shoot Horses Don't They?" The man goes to jail.
People are always complaining about abortions, killing of infants/fetuses, ect, yet when it comes to a sick person, this is different?
We already have something like this... it's called "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate orders." It's basically the same thing, just not giving drugs to do that. That alone is bad enough, yet another way to die, at one's command immediately?
Hot-Button.
And I use hot-button controversial examples, but really. I don't want to someday be a CRNA, and that being possible from anesthesia. Not going to happen. Keep it to the OR/OB.
I wish I could have done more to shorten my grandfather's death. He was 81 years old and was dying of cancer. He refused chemo. A week before he became bedridden he was insisting on driving himself to buy me lunch. A day after becoming bedridden he was unresponsive. My aunt and I had to turn him every so often to apply cream to his backside to prevent pressure ulcers. We both cried each time because he would have been mortified to know we were seeing his buttocks. We gave him morphine and Ativan as often as we could per the prescribed doses but it made me sick. He was a proud man and he did not want his children and grandchildren to see him this way. He was unresponsive with no urine output for six days before his body finally gave out. I loved him so much and would have sat by his bed, given him his medications, bathed him, etc, forever to keep him with me if that was what he would want. But it wasn't, it wasn't who he was, and that still hurts almost a year later.
We already have something like this... it's called "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate orders." It's basically the same thing, just not giving drugs to do that. That alone is bad enough, yet another way to die, at one's command immediately?
Your post really is kind of all over the place. I agree with you that euthanasia is murder, but have to point out to you that this quoted section is not. Withdrawing extraordinary measures that are keeping a person alive artificially, or just pumping the organs of a person already dead, is not murder. Accepting the inevitable is not murder. I mean, what do you suggest? Should we keep working the organs of the critically injured or profoundly brain damaged forever? Should we keep pumping the chemo and radiation, and force people to use somatic support, even when we know it's become torture? Should we keep brain dead bodies working with machines forever, a la Jahi McMath? Where do you propose we house all those people?
I think you need to think your position through a little more.
Though this site seems to have a large proportion of people who think otherwise, most of the public agrees with me.
Think of this: suicide and basically having mental illness is illegal... the police can involuntarily check people into psych wards if they are "a danger to self or others" in their opinion, or they can even get locked in one if they are considered "gravely disabled" by some authority. The POLICE come and pick people up.
Euthanasia is assisted suicide. Because it is by a healthcare provider, it is not longer illegal? Attempting suicide is illegal or even THINKING about it (having thoughts) is illegal, so is being labeled with a mental illness, police can put them involuntarily into psych wards and commit them, restrain them, ect. Dr. Kevorkian went to jail. I guess because you're a healthcare provider, and not a patient, you can't be committed to a ward, restrained, (they can even take a person to court and turn them into a ward of state), for an 'Ide, or thinking about it, other people are constantly by the police.
There's a movie called "They Shoot Horses Don't They?" The man goes to jail.
People are always complaining about abortions, killing of infants/fetuses, ect, yet when it comes to a sick person, this is different?
We already have something like this... it's called "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate orders." It's basically the same thing, just not giving drugs to do that. That alone is bad enough, yet another way to die, at one's command immediately?
Hot-Button.
And I use hot-button controversial examples, but really. I don't want to someday be a CRNA, and that being possible from anesthesia. Not going to happen. Keep it to the OR/OB.
I had to peek to see if you're a nurse or student. You are not yet a nursing student, and for that, I'll keep this minimum. Allowing a person's terminal injuries or illness to take their life by their own wishes (DNR) is not murder and you'll be hard pressed to find a person who feels differently.
Additionally, mental illness is not illegal. I'm struggling to follow your thinking here. Suicidal ideation is not illegal. I don't understand what "gravely disabled" means, especially in the context of mental illness.
Your mindset on many, many things will change greatly after you've completed school and started to work in critical care (a requirement of CRNA programs).
We already have something like this... it's called "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate orders." It's basically the same thing, just not giving drugs to do that. That alone is bad enough, yet another way to die, at one's command immediately?
I agree with the two previous posters that "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate" is not euthanasia. Or assisted suicide.
It is letting nature take its course.
People have the right to say they don't want to be flogged at the end of their life by CPR. They have the right to say they don't want to be attached to a ventilator.
Unfortunately folks, this attitude is out there (the poster who has been arguing that some hospice nurses are killing people). And in that book I've mentioned twice, the author talks about this issue. The CNA who turned in the two nurses was upset that 02 was taken off a patient at end-of-life, among other things.
My father had emergency surgery for a ruptured colon after not getting medical care for weeks after noticing a large lump in his abdomen and constipation. He had a tumor. He had emergency surgery after calling 911 due to excruciating pain. He was given a colostomy after a long surgery. His risk factors were two bypass surgeries, high blood pressure, diabetes, and many more issues. He had a heart attack as he was sent to the ICU and resuscitation started his heart again after 10 minutes. When we got there, he was brain dead. After two days, I was given the power to make him a DNR because my brother, who did have that power, couldn't do it. He felt like he would be killing our dad.
So I did it. All that happened was the drugs that were keeping his blood pressure up were decreased. He died pretty quickly.
That is not assisted suicide, euthanasia, or murder. That is letting nature take its course.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
We already have something like this... it's called "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate orders." It's basically the same thing, just not giving drugs to do that. That alone is bad enough, yet another way to die, at one's command immediately?
If what others are saying is true and you are not yet a nurse, you will come to understand why people choose to be DNR or why families choose to withdraw support. It can be kinder to let nature take its course than to force people to endure ongoing treatments that can cause more damage than good- have you ever felt a patient's ribs break while performing compressions? Do you know what the mortality rate of a code is? One thing those entering health care need to realize is that you can't save them all. Life is a terminal condition; it is only a question of what will end it- incurable cancer, old age, trauma, etc.
We have a hospitalist who talks to patients about code status in the most blunt way that it's a bit horrifying to listen to. I say it's horrifying, but really, I don't think people realize what is involved in ACLS and what usually happens afterward. We had a 50-something woman maxed out on anti-convulsants and propofol not too long ago, continuously monitoring her EEG, which never did stop showing generalized seizures. I can't remember what caused her code blue, but I do remember she had no significant comorbidities. Hypothermia protocol did nothing for her. I've been in ICU step down 9 months and have yet to see any code blues that required hypothermia come to us. The closest I've seen is one who went to ICU after coding on my floor, being resuscitated 20-minutes in, going to ICU and remaining vented for a month at my facility, and then having to be shipped out in an attempt to get weaned off ventilation. People just don't come back from it without being somehow significantly damaged.
Do nurses really get involved in the finances of their patients?
Where do nurses get this financial information?
I'm in home health and it's part of the d/c planning assisted by our SW for some of our patients. I don't generally get directly involved but as case mgr I receive updates and these issues can be discussed in team conference.
I'm not changing my mind on PTP or DNR or Euthanasia or Assisted 'Ide.
And it is illegal, they can put people into psych wards involuntary for 72 hr, 14 day, and 90 day and beyond holds, and that can include idealation. They can be forced to go to court and get orders to keep them there. Police can watch them and put them into restraints while there including ordering them to go to one based off what they say or act.
So that changes bc it's a healthcare provider instead thinking/doing 'Ides? Double standards at play..
Social workers can deal with finances... as if people can pay bills, ect while inpatient... not. Try getting a hold of a phone and your cards while there.
Knew I'd get some frustrated replies with what I wrote based off reading the poll and some posts here. Truth is, most of the public is against euthanasia/assisted suicide. Some people consider DNR passive euthanasia
I'm not changing my mind on PTP or DNR or Euthanasia or Assisted 'Ide.
And it is illegal, they can put people into psych wards involuntary for 72 hr, 14 day, and 90 day and beyond holds, and that can include idealation. They can be forced to go to court and get orders to keep them there. Police can watch them and put them into restraints while there including ordering them to go to one based off what they say or act.
So that changes bc it's a healthcare provider instead thinking/doing 'Ides? Double standards at play..
Social workers can deal with finances... as if people can pay bills, ect while inpatient... not. Try getting a hold of a phone and your cards while there.
Knew I'd get some frustrated replies with what I wrote based off reading the poll and some posts here. Truth is, most of the public is against euthanasia/assisted suicide. Some people consider DNR passive euthanasia
So you're saying you and/or others are opposed to someone's right to refuse artificially altering their natural/God-intended course?
I'm not changing my mind on PTP or DNR or Euthanasia or Assisted 'Ide.
And it is illegal, they can put people into psych wards involuntary for 72 hr, 14 day, and 90 day and beyond holds, and that can include idealation. They can be forced to go to court and get orders to keep them there. Police can watch them and put them into restraints while there including ordering them to go to one based off what they say or act.
So that changes bc it's a healthcare provider instead thinking/doing 'Ides? Double standards at play..
Social workers can deal with finances... as if people can pay bills, ect while inpatient... not. Try getting a hold of a phone and your cards while there.
Knew I'd get some frustrated replies with what I wrote based off reading the poll and some posts here. Truth is, most of the public is against euthanasia/assisted suicide. Some people consider DNR passive euthanasia
I'm having trouble understanding what you're trying to say. I'm not purposefully trying to be rude, but you are not expressing your ideas very clearly.
Is 'Ide some sort of short hand for suicide?
Very few people consider DNR "passive euthanasia". Certainly not anyone who understands what DNR is.
DNR does not mean "do not treat". It means do not initiate CPR in the event of breathing or heartbeat stopping. Many perfectly healthy people choose to be DNR. It is their legal right to do so. If you, as a nurse, initiated CPR on a patient with a known DNR directive, you would be committing a gross ethical violation.
I don't know what you're getting at with bringing up patients' personal finances. Are you saying hospital inpatients are deliberately prevented from making financial arrangements by staff? Honestly, I don't know what you're trying to say here, I'm curious.
SunriseDay
70 Posts
Euthanasia is murder.
Though this site seems to have a large proportion of people who think otherwise, most of the public agrees with me.
Think of this: suicide and basically having mental illness is illegal... the police can involuntarily check people into psych wards if they are "a danger to self or others" in their opinion, or they can even get locked in one if they are considered "gravely disabled" by some authority. The POLICE come and pick people up.
Euthanasia is assisted suicide. Because it is by a healthcare provider, it is not longer illegal? Attempting suicide is illegal or even THINKING about it (having thoughts) is illegal, so is being labeled with a mental illness, police can put them involuntarily into psych wards and commit them, restrain them, ect. Dr. Kevorkian went to jail. I guess because you're a healthcare provider, and not a patient, you can't be committed to a ward, restrained, (they can even take a person to court and turn them into a ward of state), for an 'Ide, or thinking about it, other people are constantly by the police.
There's a movie called "They Shoot Horses Don't They?" The man goes to jail.
People are always complaining about abortions, killing of infants/fetuses, ect, yet when it comes to a sick person, this is different?
We already have something like this... it's called "pulling the plug" or "do not resuscitate orders." It's basically the same thing, just not giving drugs to do that. That alone is bad enough, yet another way to die, at one's command immediately?
Hot-Button.
And I use hot-button controversial examples, but really. I don't want to someday be a CRNA, and that being possible from anesthesia. Not going to happen. Keep it to the OR/OB.