Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Specializes in ED, Tele, Psych.

well said :yeahthat:

nursing is truly dysfunctional and worse than not supporting its members, it actually shoots itself in the foot on a regular basis.

back to the theme of this thread though....getting a doctorate shouldn't be about a title (although once earned, you should be able to use it) it should be about advancing your knowledge. in the case of a research doctorate it is about advancing the state of the art in your field. in the case of clinical or practice doctorates it should be about improving your ability to care for your patients - unfortunately all too often that part of the doctorate is left behind in nursing (remember the ND, DNS, and DNSC,? - all were supposedly 'practice' doctorates that degenerated into PhD-light programs). worse yet is that when nursing has the opportunity to collaborate with other professions, they reject it. how many physicians are faculty at NP programs? pharmacists? public health professionals? at my school the colleges of pharmacy, public health, medicine, and nursing shared a quad and library yet none of these professions were on my faculty and the other three routine had joint programs and cross listed courses. i asked why there was no joint DNP/MPH, why my pharm course wasn't taught by a PharmD, and why no physicians were on my faculty. i was told "they never asked us" - really so nursing has to wait for an invitation to collaborate?

nursing is dysfunctional and i hope to make it a little better, but i gotta say it doesn't look good.

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well said :yeahthat:

nursing is truly dysfunctional and worse than not supporting its members, it actually shoots itself in the foot on a regular basis.

back to the theme of this thread though....getting a doctorate shouldn't be about a title (although once earned, you should be able to use it) it should be about advancing your knowledge. in the case of a research doctorate it is about advancing the state of the art in your field. in the case of clinical or practice doctorates it should be about improving your ability to care for your patients - unfortunately all too often that part of the doctorate is left behind in nursing (remember the ND, DNS, and DNSC,? - all were supposedly 'practice' doctorates that degenerated into PhD-light programs). worse yet is that when nursing has the opportunity to collaborate with other professions, they reject it. how many physicians are faculty at NP programs? pharmacists? public health professionals? at my school the colleges of pharmacy, public health, medicine, and nursing shared a quad and library yet none of these professions were on my faculty and the other three routine had joint programs and cross listed courses. i asked why there was no joint DNP/MPH, why my pharm course wasn't taught by a PharmD, and why no physicians were on my faculty. i was told "they never asked us" - really so nursing has to wait for an invitation to collaborate?

nursing is dysfunctional and i hope to make it a little better, but i gotta say it doesn't look good.

I think things are looking good. The dnp programs I know of use pharmacists to teach pharmacology, use MDs for guest lectures, use PT to guest lecture. One program where they have a MPH, the DNPs have been invited for a dual degree. In your world all the nurses "reject" collaboration, in my world they all accept collaborate. Both of us are right, DNP programs will fall somewhere in the middle.

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Specializes in ICU, ER, RESEARCH, REHAB, HOME HEALTH, QUALITY.

I definitely agree, when we as a professional decided that BSN was entry into practice and then could not get academia to go along with it, instead of dealing with that issue it was decided by whom to create a new level of nursing to confuse everyone else.. Patients don't know the difference and AA degree programs are alive in well.. yet we are still eating our yourng and confused at a group. We as a group don't even know what the difference between PhD and DNP and if we don't know how can the public know? is that crazy or what!!

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I definitely agree, when we as a professional decided that BSN was entry into practice and then could not get academia to go along with it, instead of dealing with that issue it was decided by whom to create a new level of nursing to confuse everyone else.. Patients don't know the difference and AA degree programs are alive in well.. yet we are still eating our yourng and confused at a group. We as a group don't even know what the difference between PhD and DNP and if we don't know how can the public know? is that crazy or what!!

"We" as a group of NPs do know the difference. We may not agree on the value of a DNP or a PhD. The information is very clear in the difference between a DNP and PhD, a lot less clarity between the MSN NP and the DNP NP.

I am also confused by "academia" would not go along with the BSN. Depends on which academia you are suggesting. Universitiy academia for the most part were very supportive of the BSN mandate. Signifiicant oppostion came from community colleges, nursing home admimistrators and hospital administrators who felt the BSN mandate was causing the nursing shortage.

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im starting a direct entry program next fall, as long as i am grandfathered in and able to care for patients then i could care less about the title! if i want to teach in the future or further my research interests, i'll pursue the DNP.

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Specializes in ED, Tele, Psych.

PraieNP, I think the dnp programs in general would do well to move in your program's direction and away from mine. the risk of the PhD-light is real and we must avoid that if the DNP is to be a separate entity IMHO.

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in another thread the question was asked

"so why do it? from a health policy perspective, it makes no sense. we need np's and pa's to be practicing in rural and inner city underserved areas"

better educated nps will improve patient care, access to care, and help to supply more np's for rural and underserved areas. they are better educated in policy and economics so they can understand the implications of practice, not sit back and let other dictate practice for them. knowledge is power.

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Right, but if we look at medicine as an example. The crushing student debt load, and decreased enrollment from underserved areas in medical schools secondary to the increased financial committments has LED to the decrease of medical students entering primary care, and led to the shift of MD's to work in more urban settings. From what I can see, the DNP COULD cause, and have the same effects. What assurances can you give that that WON'T happen?

A recent survey of medical students indicated that only 2% plan on entering primary care. That is abyssmal. We need that number to be closer to 40%. Right now, there are close to 50,000 primary care rural openings within the US. They can't fill them. THIS is where PA's and NP's can fill a niche, and provide excellent care to smaller communities. However, making the process something that will discourage and decrease the number of providers that are graduating, and will likely to be practice in these areas is simply mind boggling.

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

I view the DNP as natural progression.

Began when the NP needed no grad degree. Many are still in practice as undergard NPs with National certifications.

Then, the MSN was the degree mandated as necessary to practice as APN (NP).

Now, I see the DNP as the terminal (final degree) to practice as APN (NP).

Just natural progression.

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right, but if we look at medicine as an example. the crushing student debt load, and decreased enrollment from underserved areas in medical schools secondary to the increased financial committments has led to the decrease of medical students entering primary care, and led to the shift of md's to work in more urban settings. from what i can see, the dnp could cause, and have the same effects. what assurances can you give that that won't happen?

excellent points, one major factor is the difference in cost of dnp vs the md. one can still obtain a dnp at a public university for a reasonable cost, and work part time(prefer very part time) during the process. the primary care issue is old and yet remains relevant. i know in 1994 when the clintons were trying to push health care reform primary care was a major issue. the issue has only become worse, now nps and pas want the high paying jobs in the larger communities. i am open to suggestions, i don't have any assurances. the older i get the less i can assure!

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I won't lie. The more I get into nursing education the more I can understand why MDs wouldn't take us seriously, look at the tripe (nursing theory) we have to spend a lot of time learning. What real benefit is Perceived constiptation or Disturbed Energy field going to have for a patient? What I believe it boils down to is that the nursing profession has a chip on its shoulder and may be trying to compensate for it. I believe nursing is a very valuable profession but it is what it is.

If I was mature enough to realize back then what I realize now, I would have set my sights on medical school.

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I am sorry I don't think it's natural progression (yet)...

A big chunk of my MSN program was spent having instructors force feed us that we were still nurses... A big chunk of nothing to do about taking care of patients.

As posted somewhere else:

1) Nursing inferiority complex...

2) Money grab by the schools...

3) In the end just another title to add to all the other titles that confuse the public...

Unless the focus is placed on patient care and how to provide that patient care (pharmacology, A&P, etc)... Unless the primary/basic components are the same in every program.... Unless there is standardization of practice regulations from state to state... Whatever we are called won't matter.

While we go through all of this the MDs, DOs and PAs will continue to laugh all the way to the bank.

.02

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