Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Specializes in NICU, Pediatrics, Postpartum, M/B.
I have found many postings about the positive value of the DNP - but it typically seems to revolve around the title of 'doctor' being used.

I personally believe using the term 'Doctor' in a health care environment strictly implies physician. I address my college professor, who also has an academic doctorate, as doctor in college and Mr in health care setting.... It's misleading to patients, confusing to staff, and truly where is the benefit?

You could be called Doctor unless your state already has a statutory restriction against it...check with your BON.

I'd like to hear more benefits of the clinical doctorate and to see how it is beneficial to patient outcomes.

v/r

I am in a DNP program, and have never even thought about the title of doctor. That is not the reason I am doing it, but I'm sure those people exist out there, how sad. I think it will be a few years before we truly see many benefits of the DNP program, as it is relatively new (I'm @ ASU and we are the first class for this program that started fall 2007). As for referring to people as "doctor", my thoughts are, if you have earned a doctorate or PhD in ANYTHING (pharm, palentology, sciences, engineering, etc.) you have the right to be called that, since you probably worked your orifice off for it! I personally prefer "nurse" to "doctor", as that is why I did this program rather than going to medical school, that is, the school of thought and the theory behind nursing and the models are more "me", I believe in holistic thinking about people/patients....Just my opinion!

Kristenwrn

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Congrats on your DNP program.

Your state BON allows you to use the term Doctor as long as you specify you are an NP according to the 2008 Pearson report.

I still personally believe it misleads the public for a non-physician to use the term in the medical setting - unless you specifically state you are doctor so and so, though not a doctor, but someone with a doctorate..and I reply, nice to meet you Ms or Mr. There are direct legal and insurance and medical implications of 'me' thinking you are a 'doctor' rather then someone with a doctorate.

v/r

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Specializes in Family Practice.

Oh, don't confuse me with the DOCTOR bit.

I work in a rough environment (Corrections). I've been seeing NP patients for 15+ years.

We do not have U.S. graduate physicans. They disrespect Nurses, and Nurse Practitioners. Even the PAs have no license (foreing medical grads).

They have no reason to respect Nurses or the American Nurses Association.

Since day one I have never represented myself as a Medical Doctor.

I'm a Mid Level Practitioner. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
I personally believe using the term 'Doctor' in a health care environment strictly implies physician.

I'm sure dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, and doctoral prepared physical therapists, occupational therapists, psychologists and speech therapist completely agree.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
Congrats on your DNP program.

Your state BON allows you to use the term Doctor as long as you specify you are an NP according to the 2008 Pearson report.

I still personally believe it misleads the public for a non-physician to use the term in the medical setting - unless you specifically state you are doctor so and so, though not a doctor, but someone with a doctorate..and I reply, nice to meet you Ms or Mr. There are direct legal and insurance and medical implications of 'me' thinking you are a 'doctor' rather then someone with a doctorate.

v/r

May I use your quote on our roles discussion board? This is truly classic.

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Tammy, please pick it apart so I can see what your view is.... Thanks.

Tammy, you said

"I'm sure dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, and doctoral prepared physical therapists, occupational therapists, psychologists and speech therapist completely agree."

From a patient perspective - I feel there is a difference... As a nurse and doctor work together as part of a team... where the other professionals are a bit more independent thus the confusion is not present....

v/r

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Medical College of Georgia (in Augusta) offers the DNP program.

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
I have found many postings about the positive value of the DNP - but it typically seems to revolve around the title of 'doctor' being used.

I personally believe using the term 'Doctor' in a health care environment strictly implies physician. I address my college professor, who also has an academic doctorate, as doctor in college and Mr in health care setting.... It's misleading to patients, confusing to staff, and truly where is the benefit?

You could be called Doctor unless your state already has a statutory restriction against it...check with your BON.

I'd like to hear more benefits of the clinical doctorate and to see how it is beneficial to patient outcomes.

v/r

I think the benefit of "allowing" persons with a 4 year doctoral degree use the title "doctor" is that it is fair. Patients aren't that stupid. It's like correcting someones use of the English language, though it can be annoying, it's accurate. To expect that nurses, pharmacists, or whoever not use their academic title "doctor" is unfair, reminiscent of the type of mentality that wants to go back to earlier forms of discrimination, because "it's always been that way, why change?" In my opinion.

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I would like to become an np, but have about 3 years before i can even apply for this. i can make it throught the program with two years to spare before this 2015 date, but is this how it works? can i do this or will i have to go through the dnp program? i really dont want to have to do this and may rethink my decision if i have to

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The nursing profession has had a debate going about education levels for entry into practice about becoming an RN and now on becoming an NP. There has not been any resolution to the RN educational level of entry it continues to have 3 forms of education that qualify a person to sit for the RN licensure examination: diploma, ADN, BSN. Unfortunately, the general population thinks that the title "RN" IS the DEGREE and not the license. Also, unfortunately, health care administrators believe that there is no difference between them and only look at the fact that a potential candidate has passed the NCLEX.

For NP's I predict that there will be no difference in this situation.

Personally, I believe that a doctoral degree should have been the first step of credentialling after the certificate programs were eliminated and the education moved to a Master's program. However, I was not asked my opinion by anyone. ;)

It makes sense from the perspective of entry level education within other professions (chiropractor, Physical Therapist, dentist, etc) that the Nursing profession follow along with this. As a Master's prepared NP, I have no intention of achieving a DNP at this point (maybe I'll change my mind at a later date), because it changes nothing from a legal, financial, or professional standpoint. There are several on-line or distance format dnp programs that I have found that generally range from 24-40 additional credits of graduate level work for those that already have a master's degree. Within the content of that course work, however, I cannot for the life of me see any revalatory information that would be imparted that would change the quality of the services that I provide as a (yes) INDEPENDENT primary care provider.

A separate discussion: Independence is a legal definition of practice which is defined by regulations in the Nurse Practice Act of each state. There are differences in each state for each of the various Advanced Practice Nurses AND Physician Assistants. Of primary difference: an APN practices on their OWN license and PA practices on the license of a physician.

The fact that the regulations differ from state to state is crazy, but the nature of the beast within a REPUBLIC form of government where the States have the authority to make laws within their boundaries. (also, each state has different AMA and PAC group strength which influences CONSIDERABLY what regulations get passed in each state).

Money talks!!!

Another discussion: When will advanced practice nurses not "settle" for being paid so much less than MD/DOs for the services that they provide. As reimbursable providers (hence income-generators within a practice), why do APN's continue to accept wages not that much different than RN's????????

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Belairnp,

I really liked several of your points. I am about to start my BSN and aspire to become an NP in the future. However you have voiced several areas of concern - that are evident event at my noobie level. I hope to hear more on this!

Specifically:

The positive benefit of DNP being entry level NP degree.

The need to standardize DNP curriculums and outcomes across the board.

The need to try and standardize regs accross the states.

I also am interested in the thoughts of a standardized outcome test for DNPs - much like PAs, DOs, MDs take. I had read that this was being developed for DNP grads - but then it dropped off the radar. Would appreciate any news on this if its still out there.

v/r

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Just Cause,

(wow...could I bend your ear with my opinions on the profession that you are entering!!!!)

Point number 1: The positive benefit of DNP as entry level degree for NP's.

Caution i'm about to show my age ;)

I remember when the entry level for a physical therapist was a bachelors degree. It went quickly to Master's level and within the past 5 yrs to a doctorate. IMHO, the degree of professional respect given to a professional comes more thoroughly and easily when a doctorate is the entry level degree.

When I first applied to the graduate NP program that I attended, there was a practice requirement of 5 yrs as an RN with BSN before an applicant could be considered.

All told....

What many things boil down to in this country is MONEY....supply and demand.....capitalism is alive and well (not good or bad, just a statement of fact).

Practice restrictions are based on monetary impact (I mean how absurd is it in some states requiring NP supervised practice, that an NP can practice in rural areas without MD/DO supervision, but in urban areas they suddenly become stupid and MUST have onsite MD/DO supervision???)

Preparatory education level is driven by money. The DNP program is seen as the new money maker for the institutes of learning.

In my state of practice, an MD or DO is not required to be board certified in anything, but can hang their shingle announcing specialization in whatever they want. NP's are required to be board certified in their area of specialization prior to being licensed.

Point number 2: The need for standardization of dnp programs and outcomes.

The profession has not achieved standardization of programs that lead to a bachelor's degree or a master's degree. The main thing to consider are the requirements of the certifying body (ANCC, AANP, etc.) to sit for the desired certification exam. BTW...carefully check YOUR state's requirement for certifying body prior to test registration.

The only outcome that is measurable following a DNP program at present is the achievement of preparation requirements to sit for certifying examinations. Current NP practice research is based upon patient outcomes. I'm not certain to which outcomes you are referring.

Point number 3: The need to standardize regs across the states.

There aren't standardized Nurse Practice Acts across the country yet. The Compact State agreement is definitely a step in this direction, but only RN practice is covered by this agreement. There is rumor that a similar agreement is hoped to be enacted for NP practice, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Absolutely, I agree with the need to do this. In fact it is quite ridiculous that there is NOT standardization of ANY nursing practice, whether RN or APN. Again, my statement of urban vs rural practice is similar to questions of states of independent practice vs collaborative practice vs supervised practice. (Must be the air pollution ratio or elevation above sea level that makes NP's more incompetent in some states versus other states, eh???)

Again.....MONEY is the culprit. Nursing organizations (including NP organizations) do not have as much money as MD/DO organizations in order to "buy" the legislative support for regulatory reform.

Just Cause, you are going to be entering a VERY dysfunctional profession that does NOT have a "good ole boy" system operating and which does NOT take care of itself or its own members.

I don't know anything about you, but you may want to rethink your options, especially if you are young enough to entertain Med school.

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