Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

I don't understand what problem they are trying to fix though. Instead the whole idea seems to only aggravate existing issues. Research has shown that patient care (within the scope of practice) of NP's is at the very least the same (in terms of outcomes) as with physicians. Plus, most patients say they have a more satisfying experience being treated by NP's. So what's the problem that is being solved by a DNP? Where is the massive study showing a DNP increases the quality of care recieved? Without any of that, it all just seems meaningless. Not to mention increasing the strain on an existing nursing faculty crunch.

Just a thought, er thoughts...

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Specializes in CT ICU, OR, Orthopedic.

Many schools offer a BSN to DNP program. At least in Michigan they do.

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More schools are opening a BSN-DNP program every year. One thing to consider is that most of these dnp programs are not accredited yet. There are 90+ DNP programs in the country and only 20 of these will have had their accreditation site visits by the end of the spring 2009 semester. 20 more visits are scheduled for 2009-2010. 4 DNP programs had site visits last term, and they should learn if they were officially accredited at the CCNE Board meeting in April.

The University of Virginia has had a site visit (and we should know next October if we have full accreditation for the DNP program). Our faculty do not want to enroll students into a BSN-DNP program that is not yet accredited.

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Future of Nursing?

I am genuinely intrigued by the direction of nursing and the expansion of what nurses do. I am not "trolling" or interested in picking a fight, I just want to open a discussion. I've searched the internet but I still have some unanswered questions. My intent is just to further understand a somewhat, well very, heated debate.

I am a nursing student and I've always considered specialties and am really interested in neonatal nurse practitioner or midwifery. I actually wrote a 3 month long research paper last semester on OB/GYNS versus midwives and this is where my interest began.

Neonatal NP versus MD in the NICU....

MD has 4yr undergrad, 4 yr medical school and residency, most likely pediatrics in this case. Med school entails all kinds of stuff and the entire life span/

NNP has nursing degree, most likely 4 year bsn or asn to bsn and master's degree. The NNP has specialized 2-3 years training and education on a specific, localized topic... unlike the MD who has much more education but is only working on a localized area.

I just view the NNP as a more logical choice, why lean all the other stuff? NNP's don't really need to know about adult problems..?

Why are so many shaken up about the DNP? I personally think it would be great to have DNP's take over specialized areas. PCP would be a good option. The DNP can be locally trained and educated on this one central topic... no need for surgical rotations, etc. Why are MD's in such a fuss? I truly don't understand.

So, I sought the advice of a few resident/med school friends. Most of them argue that PCP's are there to "catch things" "read between the lines" and require the extensive medical school knowledge to diagnose things before they get out of hand and that DNP's will lack this knowledge and will miss key problems. I'm not so sure I fall for it.

Why aren't there med schools for specific areas like there are for nursing degrees?

Just curious what others think... mostly about DNP's in primary care.

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Why aren't there med schools for specific areas like there are for nursing degrees?

Keep in mind that medical school is a generalist degree, just as "basic" nursing school is a generalist program. Advanced practice nursing degrees, like NNP programs, are for people who have already completed a basic, generalist nursing program (or, in the case of direct-entry programs, basic, generalist nursing education is built in to the program), in the same way that physician residencies provide an opportunity for physicians to specialize after they have completed the generalist component of their education.

Nurses and physicians both start out as generalists and then specialize through additional education. Physician specialty residencies correspond, professionally, to advanced practice degrees in nursing -- but part of the controversy is that physician residencies focus almost exclusively on clinical knowledge, practice, and expertise, while advanced degrees in nursing spend a good deal of their time (which is much less time than physicians spend in residencies, to begin with) on courses like "Issues and Trends in Nursing."

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I was thinking of going the alternate entry MSN route to become a NP but I would be cutting it extremely close as I still have prereqs to take. What would they do if someone was already entered in the masters NP school in 2015? Would I be unable to practice once I got out? This is crazy. I really would love to become a practitoner but not if I am going to be told sorry you went through all of that school for nothing. Any ideas? I will be accepted to the program december of this year then I will graduate phase I in 2011, then work for 1 year, then back to school for at least 2 more years. That puts me right at 2015!!!! Just when I had finally decided to go to nursing school. Why cant it be simple? I already came from a drama filled profession (recreational therapy-which has done me no good career wise). If I am already enrolled in a program will they let me finish and practice?

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Specializes in Emergency/Trauma/Critical Care/Rescue.

Sory my friend, but I do have to disagree with you. I work with many high quality physician's who, in truth are brillent. Most of them will tell you that they don't use a great deal of the materal from their undergrad degree. The primary function is to be used as a discriminator-if you can handle the rigor of the core hard sciences you have the capability to hadle Medical school. And if look at the eastern european model, the direct entry high school students seem to do fairly well. In most of the world (and I've lived in both Europe and Asia) American and Canadian Physicians are considered professors, over and above the standard practicing physician.

I will support your contention the the rigor of medical classes exceed the nursing equivelent. But not everyone has to be a rocket scientist to get the job done-and done well.

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I am going to stick with the rocket scientist theme.

If I was going to buy a rocket, I would want the person in charge of building the rocket to be a PhD in aerospace engineering, not someone with on online degree in computer aided drafting. Yeah, I am going to need someone to draw up the blueprints for my rocket, but everything is going to be designed and checked by the aerospace engineers. The draftsperson doesn't need a PhD in drafting to draw up a blueprint based on the aerospace engineer's specs. I believe an advanced practice nurse doesn't need a doctorate to perform their role, but I also want to make sure there is a board certified physician available if needed.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Physical therapy and pharmacy now requires practice doctorate level education. See nursing NP advancing to practice doctorate for same professional issues.

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Specializes in Emergency/Trauma/Critical Care/Rescue.

The Ambulance drive-damn I did that full time for 15 of the best years of my life! A shame I damn near went bankrupt doing it-or I might still be having at it (and I do on occasion still fly rescue-when the kids will let me). I do believe that I might have not be clear with what was written. I in no way advocate replacing MD's with DNP's. I don't know if your at the paramedic level, but the first thing they teach is that patient care is a team sport. So of course you want to have a senior somewhere in program. As far as progressing to a doctorial, why not? If someone what's to spend the time and money to study their discipline of choice-what's the problem? Any physician that considers a nursing doctorate a threat has a really weak ego-or is a idiot. Is an DNP going to change how an NP practices (from the curriculum I rather doubt it). As long as it's not mandatory, have at it. Just to let you know- I'm currently or have been a military medic, EMT-P, RN, NP-C, and PA-C (yea I know I'm old). And they were done for real. Doing it on line may work for some, but I'm afraid that I'm just not one of them.

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The Ambulance drive-damn I did that full time for 15 of the best years of my life! A shame I damn near went bankrupt doing it-or I might still be having at it (and I do on occasion still fly rescue-when the kids will let me). I do believe that I might have not be clear with what was written. I in no way advocate replacing MD's with DNP's. I don't know if your at the paramedic level, but the first thing they teach is that patient care is a team sport. So of course you want to have a senior somewhere in program. As far as progressing to a doctorial, why not? If someone what's to spend the time and money to study their discipline of choice-what's the problem? Any physician that considers a nursing doctorate a threat has a really weak ego-or is a idiot. Is an DNP going to change how an NP practices (from the curriculum I rather doubt it). As long as it's not mandatory, have at it. Just to let you know- I'm currently or have been a military medic, EMT-P, RN, NP-C, and PA-C (yea I know I'm old). And they were done for real. Doing it on line may work for some, but I'm afraid that I'm just not one of them.

I agree completely with your assessment, I think MY problem, from a policy perspective, is that they are making it mandatory. I would agree that having an OPTIONAL DNP degree would not be bothersome, not to me at least, but to make it mandatory creates some potential access to care issues, and cannot be proven to enhance care, at least not yet. Why not make it optional, collect data for 10 years or so, and THEN decide whether or not to make it mandatory. I mean, that is the logical thing to do.

BTW- COMPLETELY and utterly agree with you on the whole online thing. Attaining an academic degree, ie; DPH, PhD, etc. online is one thing, but to attain a CLINICAL degree with patients care in the balance on a computer with no face time and interaction is the most dangerous thing I can think of, and I really feel sorry for the patients who are going to get care from those providers.

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Physical therapy and pharmacy now requires practice doctorate level education. See nursing NP advancing to practice doctorate for same professional issues.

AND just what are those "professional issues" that you speak of? Hmmm?

Physical Therapy and Pharmacy both have doctoral degrees true, but NEITHER profession has made a mandate that ALL PT's and RPH's need to have a doctorate, so it is not quite as similar as you would have us think.

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