Doctor refuses to treat the unvaccinated

Editorial Team / Admin · Aug 21, 2021

4 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Be that as it may, do we use that as a reason to exclude people from care?

As I child back in the 80s, I remember the process for going to the doctor’s office when there was something contagious suspected: park behind the building, stay in the car, and wait for them to come get us. Not allowed in the waiting room, brought in the back door to an isolation room when most exam rooms were empty.

This is just the modern version of keeping those suspected of being contagious or having the much higher potential of being contagious away from other patients to infect. Especially with such high numbers refusing to take a vaccine based on techniques studied for years, showing fewer adverse effects than the disease itself, and not even a cost to patients.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Aug 21, 2021

This is nothing new. Lots of pediatricians refuse to accept patients whose parents are anti-vaxx. If for no other reason, they are a danger to other kids in the waiting room, particularly when we are talking about Covid. Secondly, if you are telling the doc he doesn't know what he is talking about, you should not be seeking his care. Beat it. You can still get care somewhere else.

Go on home, folks. Nothing to see here.

jive turkey · Aug 21, 2021

5 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

This is nothing new. Lots of pediatricians refuse to accept patients whose parents are anti-vaxx. If for no other reason, they are a danger to other kids in the waiting room, particularly when we are talking about Covid. Secondly, if you are telling the doc he doesn't know what he is talking about, you should not be seeking his care. Beat it. You can still get care somewhere else.

Go on home, folks. Nothing to see here.

That's illogical. COVID is not the only infectious disease out there. Denying care for children because they're a danger to others would mean no kids seeking treatment for an infectious disease can be seen.

Little Timmy has itchy bumps all over? Get out!

Susie has a runny nose and a fever? That could be a variety of infectious diseases. Get out!

You also made a statement that's alarming. The doctor refuses the CHILD because the PARENT is anti-vax. The child gets denied for a choice it had no control over. Sure maybe they can "go somewhere else" but imagine if this idea of refusing treatment for people gained popularity. There would be fewer places to go with care being delayed.

Are you serious? I take your response to suggest you condone that behavior. Do you?

toomuchbaloney · Aug 21, 2021

31 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

That's illogical. COVID is not the only infectious disease out there. Denying care for children because they're a danger to others would mean no kids seeking treatment for an infectious disease can be seen.

Little Timmy has itchy bumps all over? Get out!

Susie has a runny nose and a fever? That could be a variety of infectious diseases. Get out!

You also made a statement that's alarming. The doctor refuses the CHILD because the PARENT is anti-vax. The child gets denied for a choice it had no control over. Sure maybe they can "go somewhere else" but imagine if this idea of refusing treatment for people gained popularity. There would be fewer places to go with care being delayed.

Are you serious? I take your response to suggest you condone that behavior. Do you?

Oh.

You take that response as evidence of approval...that means that we can take your remarks to threads as evidence that you think that HCWS remaining unvaccinated because of fears of future side effects or unfounded fears are perfectly acceptable. Right? That works both ways, right?

Meanwhile, how do you work in healthcare and not know that medical practices exclude people for a variety of reasons?

anewsns · Aug 21, 2021

I think it is probably unethical to not treat unvaccinated patients. Im not sure the right way to choose who and who not to admit when ICUs are full. It seems as it should be a combination of acuity and who came in first. Since vaccinated people with covid arent as sick, the majority of the time, I suppose most of the time you have to choose the unvaccinated person. However, I don't understand why people who didn't trust doctors who recommended the vaccine would seek care from those same doctors. There are many different reasons to choose not to be vaccinated, but many individuals feel that healthcare providers are incompetent since they usually recommend the vaccine. When someone comes in very ill, you cant very well ask them why they didn't get it, so it becomes irrelevant at that point. Yet, the people who are either untrusting of these doctors, touting treatments such as Ivermectin, saying that there are many doctors who are against the vaccine, or don't think 1-2 percent of individuals dying is such a big deal and not being careful should take their own advice. Go to hospitals with doctors who did not recommend the vaccine, take the ivermectin, do whatever you kept saying was right. Now , there are unvaccinated people out there who are nervous about the vaccine for more personal reasons and may even be very careful in other ways, but never necessarily said or thought any of the above. It makes more sense for those people to go. (What I meant when I said you cant assume things when unvaccinated people come in.)

jive turkey · Aug 21, 2021

6 minutes ago, anewsns said:

I think it is probably unethical to not treat unvaccinated patients. Im not sure the right way to choose who and who not to admit when ICUs are full. It seems as it should be a combination of acuity and who came in first. Since vaccinated people with covid arent as sick, the majority of the time, I suppose most of the time you have to choose the unvaccinated person. However, I don't understand why people who didn't trust doctors who recommended the vaccine would seek care from those same doctors

Sadly, this isn't the first time in history medical professionals felt they had a valid reason to deny care for those infected with a new virus receiving mainstream coverage. There were doctors doing the same thing with AIDS.

I hear you about seeking medical treatment after not trusting a doctors advice to take the vaccine. Being near death and desperate throws logic out the window. People have other reasons for not having taken it besides not trusting the doctor. Not much is being discussed regarding early treatment preventing hospitalization. Many people were diagnosed and given the same advice one would get for a common cold.

anewsns · Aug 21, 2021

18 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Sadly, this isn't the first time in history medical professionals felt they had a valid reason to deny care for those infected with a new virus receiving mainstream coverage. There were doctors doing the same thing with AIDS.

I hear you about seeking medical treatment after not trusting a doctors advice to take the vaccine. Being near death and desperate throws logic out the window. People have other reasons for not having taken it besides not trusting the doctor. Not much is being discussed regarding early treatment preventing hospitalization. Many people were diagnosed and given the same advice one would get for a common cold.

I think the main things being discussed are overlooked by many. Masks, social distancing, and handwashing. Im not sure of actual early treatments besides the basics though. In one sense, I think, "if you don't trust healthcare professionals recommendations for a vaccine, why would you entrust them with your life?" But I guess, once faced with the fact that you may be one of the people who dies, you figure well, care from incompetent hospital workers is better than no care at all. Also, I would have empathy for someone who was crashing and changed their mind and said "I wish I had gotten vaccinated or stayed home from the event I just went to, got that k95"(or whatever could have prevented this) . I don't have much empathy for people who do not take medical advice seriously, but still would feel pretty bad for someone figuring it all out in their dying hour. And yes, I know a couple of people who chose not to be vaccinated because they are very anxious about it, but they stay home all the time and do everything else to protect themselves and others. I disagree with their choice not to be vaccinated, but it is their choice. I would be devastated if either of those people ended up on ventilators or got subpar care. They never even believed any misinformation.

macawake, MSN · Aug 21, 2021

14 hours ago, jive turkey said:

I sure hope we don't. It would be such a double standard. Of all the self inflicted slow deaths going on its hypocritical to single out one disease to refuse treatment for.

I would be concerned it's being done out of spite, retaliation, or to gain publicity.

Unless you classify the refusal to get vaccinated as a disease, then what this doctor is doing is not refusing to treat a disease.

This decision seems to be targeting individuals with a certain behavior, not persons with a specific disease. They have made a choice that would be fine if they existed in a vacuum or resided in other space but since they don’t, their decision places others at risk. They’ve made that choice, but it’s not too late for them to make a new and better choice and get vaccinated.

When we have a situation with widespread transmission in a pandemic setting and many hospitals are stretched so thin that they are barely coping, then it makes sense to me to not welcome people who aren’t interested in keeping others safe, to your waiting room. I simply don’t understand why some people demand access and expect to be a part of a society that they show little concern for and don’t appear to have a desire to protect . There’s a sense of entitlement there that I find off-putting.

jive turkey · Aug 21, 2021

7 minutes ago, anewsns said:

I think the main things being discussed are overlooked by many. Masks, social distancing, and handwashing. Im not sure of actual early treatments besides the basics though. In one sense, I think, "if you don't trust healthcare professionals recommendations for a vaccine, why would you entrust them with your life?" But I guess, once faced with the fact that you may be one of the people who dies, you figure well, care from incompetent hospital workers is better than no care at all. Also, I would have empathy for someone who was crashing and changed their mind and said "I wish I had gotten vaccinated or stayed home from the event I just went to, got that k95"(or whatever could have prevented this) . I don't have much empathy for people who do not take medical advice seriously, but still would feel pretty bad for someone figuring it all out in their dying hour. And yes, I know a couple of people who chose not to be vaccinated because they are very anxious about it, but they stay home all the time and do everything else to protect themselves and others. I disagree with their choice not to be vaccinated, but it is their choice. I would be devastated if either of those people ended up on ventilators or got subpar care. They never even believed any misinformation.

I hear you and agree with you on many things. Its all too common we see patients continue to disregard medical advice making life choices that lead to the need for immediate medical attention. What's interesting is the attitude and response we are seeing to one particular disease.

Most of us in health care have put ourselves in the position to be affected or infected by a patient making what we consider bad choices. We don't hear much discussion about denying care for them. We hear arguments like "diabetes isn't a VPD" or "smoking isn't contagious".

We don't deny care for HIV patients (preventable and contagious disease)

We don't deny care for hep A and B patients (VPDs and contagious)

We don't deny care for people with HSV (preventable and contagious)

People pick COVID as the special disease to have a different attitude about. ?

Guest219794 · Aug 21, 2021

35 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Sadly, this isn't the first time in history medical professionals felt they had a valid reason to deny care for those infected with a new virus receiving mainstream coverage.

This doc is not refusing to care for patients with a virus.

Guest219794 · Aug 21, 2021

1 minute ago, jive turkey said:

I hear you and agree with you on many things. Its all too common we see patients continue to disregard medical advice making life choices that lead to the need for immediate medical attention. What's interesting is the attitude and response we are seeing to one particular disease.

Most of us in health care have put ourselves in the position to be affected or infected by a patient making what we consider bad choices. We don't hear much discussion about denying care for them. We hear arguments like "diabetes isn't a VPD" or "smoking isn't contagious".

We don't deny care for HIV patients (preventable and contagious disease)

We don't deny care for hep A and B patients (VPDs and contagious)

We don't deny care for people with HSV (preventable and contagious)

People pick COVID as the special disease to have a different attitude about. ?

These analogies don't relate to the doc in question.
This has nothing to do with whether or not somebody has Covid.

macawake, MSN · Aug 21, 2021

13 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

We don't deny care for HIV patients (preventable and contagious disease)

We don't deny care for hep A and B patients (VPDs and contagious)

We don't deny care for people with HSV (preventable and contagious)

People pick COVID as the special disease to have a different attitude about. ?

Don’t you think that the fact that Covid-19 is a respiratory infection might have something to do with that? An infectious disease that you can get vaccinated against?

Why have your posts morphed into talking about denying care to individuals with a disease, as opposed to not accepting clients who refuse to get vaccinated in your clinic? Neither this doctor or anyone else here seems to be suggesting that we don’t treat someone in need of medical treatment if they actually become infected.