Doctor refuses to treat the unvaccinated

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An Alabama doctor announced he would not treat patients who refused to get vaccinated against COVID-19 ...

Alabama Doctor Refuses to Treat Unvaccinated COVID Patients

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/19/1029260134/alabama-hospitals-ICU-beds

The state has no ICU beds available. 

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Well on a related note:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/19/the-cost-of-being-unvaccinated-just-went-up---most-insurers-are-passing-costs-back-to-patients-as-covid-hospitalizations-soar/?sh=73876ba7bd9a

Looks like some insurance carriers plan to pass some of the hospital costs related to COVID back to the patients. Sadly we all will pay more when this happens. This will be accomplished by passing on waivers....

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21 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

Well on a related note:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/19/the-cost-of-being-unvaccinated-just-went-up---most-insurers-are-passing-costs-back-to-patients-as-covid-hospitalizations-soar/?sh=73876ba7bd9a

Looks like some insurance carriers plan to pass some of the hospital costs related to COVID back to the patients. Sadly we all will pay more when this happens. This will be accomplished by passing on waivers....

You're probably right.  If looking at this through the lens of self inflicted illness raising the cost of health insurance, it's been an issue for a long time.   

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Meanwhile, unvaccinated covid infections are costing the country in ways that other "self inflicted" health issues never will.  Covid is a VPD, alcoholism and smoking are not. 

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3 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Alabama Doctor Refuses to Treat Unvaccinated COVID Patients

JiveTurkey- I imagine we will see a lot more of this... it's sad to take care of these people in the ICU when I don't even know them, I can't imagine taking care of patients over their life span then watching them die a slow death or become permanently disabled from something that is now preventable. I've heard of Drs "firing" non-compliant patients before or not seeing anti-vaxxers. 

 

57 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Meanwhile, unvaccinated covid infections are costing the country in ways that other "self inflicted" health issues never will.  Covid is a VPD, alcoholism and smoking are not. 

Agreed. This has been such a devastating pandemic in so many ways :( 

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44 minutes ago, Charlcie said:

JiveTurkey- I imagine we will see a lot more of this... it's sad to take care of these people in the ICU when I don't even know them, I can't imagine taking care of patients over their life span then watching them die a slow death or become permanently disabled from something that is now preventable. I've heard of Drs "firing" non-compliant patients before or not seeing anti-vaxxers. 

 

 

I sure hope we don't.  It would be such a double standard. Of all the self inflicted slow deaths going on its hypocritical to single out one disease to refuse treatment for. 

I would be concerned it's being done out of spite, retaliation, or to gain publicity. 

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17 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I sure hope we don't.  It would be such a double standard. Of all the self inflicted slow deaths going on its hypocritical to single out one disease to refuse treatment for. 

I would be concerned it's being done out of spite, retaliation, or to gain publicity. 

in this particular case I don't think it is out of spite. The only instances I know of are when Nephrologists and Dialysis clinics turn down patients after years of non-compliance, because they take up chairs and appointments that they never show up for and just end up going to the ER, get admitted for dialysis, then leave AMA. So ultimately for those patients the Dr. "firing" them really didn't change anything... they just kept doing what they normally did to get care. Im not saying I agree or disagree, I just think we will probably see more stories like the Dr. you posted. As long as providers are outpatient and in private practice they can basically do what they want. 

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11 minutes ago, Charlcie said:

in this particular case I don't think it is out of spite. The only instances I know of are when Nephrologists and Dialysis clinics turn down patients after years of non-compliance, because they take up chairs and appointments that they never show up for and just end up going to the ER, get admitted for dialysis, then leave AMA. So ultimately for those patients the Dr. "firing" them really didn't change anything... they just kept doing what they normally did to get care. Im not saying I agree or disagree, I just think we will probably see more stories like the Dr. you posted. As long as providers are outpatient and in private practice they can basically do what they want. 

I hear you. Having worked in dialysis I saw a fair share of non compliant patients (which is often how they ended up on dialysis long term) attended to by private practice physicians, but didn't get fired. Seen frequent flyers in the hospital, same. I would hate to see this become a trend. 

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28 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I sure hope we don't.  It would be such a double standard. Of all the self inflicted slow deaths going on its hypocritical to single out one disease to refuse treatment for. 

I would be concerned it's being done out of spite, retaliation, or to gain publicity. 

Its also important to note that this isn't just a preventable disease, it's a contagious one. If a patient kills themselves with poor lifestyle choices dies from complications of DM, obesity, drugs etc., then that is very sad, but (other than burdening the healthcare system) the damage is to their own health . However, those choosing not to vaccinate against preventable disease put many at risk and I think that is what many who have watched so many die are struggling with. Like I said, I try hard to stay objective and see both sides as much as possible. Just from my current experience with this Delta Variant, all the patients in my ICU right now that have COVID weren't vaccinated, and neither were there family members and it spread like wildfire through their households, so there's no telling who else they infected. However, I know that most people are just doing the best they can, and everyone is scared, so we just have to keep trying to educate. 

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30 minutes ago, Charlcie said:

Its also important to note that this isn't just a preventable disease, it's a contagious one.

Be that as it may, do we use that as a reason to exclude people from care? I don't want to put words in your mouth so pardon me if I misunderstood. 

I do see many use the fact that COVID is contagious to justify some degree of a punitive response. 

If we want to not treat people because their choices harm themselves and/ or others:

How about the injured drunk driver that also injured someone else?

How about murderers in the infirmary?

How about the drug dealer with a gsw?

Just to name a few

 

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29 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Be that as it may, do we use that as a reason to exclude people from care? I don't want to put words in your mouth so pardon me if I misunderstood. 

I do see many use the fact that COVID is contagious to justify some degree of a punitive response. 

If we want to not treat people because their choices harm themselves and/ or others:

How about the injured drunk driver that also injured someone else?

How about murderers in the infirmary?

How about the drug dealer with a gsw?

Just to name a few

 

Oh I didn't mean anyone should be excluded from care, I just meant that this has been hard on everyone and I try to see both sides of things. I want to stress that no patient who arrives and needs immediate care should be refused or treated poorly, that is our job and our oath (and actually it's the law so it doesn't matter how any of us feel about it LOL). However, that's not what is happening here.  On a non emergent out patient basis providers do get to choose who their patients are and he is not turning people away who are showing up sick to the clinic. They have an opportunity to 1) choose to be vaccinated or 2) choose to find a new provider within a certain time frame. I do see what you are saying though, too, because if providers start refusing patients by vaccination status then even fewer folks will utilize primary care and our already overburdened acute care system will suffer and ultimately alot of people could suffer as well (both vaccinated and not).

Thank you for asking the clarifying and interesting questions ? I've taken care of all of the people you listed, and no it is not always easy, but I do agree we have to put those feelings aside and provide the same care to everyone. However, those are all emergency room patients who needed immediate care and typically inpatient care as well. I feel like when I chose to work in a hospital I willingly chose to care for those people and whoever else walked through the door. People who have their own outpatient practice are free to have the type and amount of patients they wish, the same way that many stopped taking medicare patients years ago because it was literally too much work and paperwork for very little reimbursement. I'm not saying that is right either, just that this has happened and probably we will continue to see things like this  

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