Direct entry CRNA programs

[love-d-OR]

Just out of curiousity, do you see a future for direct entry CRNA programs? I have heard and know of direct entry NP programs and was wondering to my self if the CRNA programs are close to getting there. Some of those graduates have argued that being an RN first does not determine how well they practice as an NP, can that be said of CRNA practice?

~I am not for or against DE programs though I tend to think that advanced practice nursing degrees are for RN's to gain advanced nursing positions. On the other hand I have heard APN's say that being an NP or CRNA is nothing like being an RN, so is the RN experience necessary before the APN??

[FA to CRNA2b]

The short answer is NO, I do not see a future for DE into CRNA, quite the opposite.

[just_cause, BSN, RN]

I think for several NP programs the RN exp is helpful not not required... others it is necessary such as NNP... CRNA it definately is required. I do not see a CRNA program that would direct entry unless it had several years of school clinicals built into it - and at that point it wouldn't really be an educational money maker and would have a stigma against it (likely) from industry.

(i wouldn't post this in the CRNA forum unders specialties..they will likely fraek out as they are upset when a poster asks if the min 2 years of ICU is enough ) :)

[CRNA, DNSc]

Critical Care experience as an RN can not be gained except as an RN. That experience is too important to be lost and it would be lost or severely limited in a direct entry program- I do not see direct entry as a realistic option.

[apocatastasis]

I've never heard of such a thing, nor, as a current direct entry student, do i think it'd be a good idea. I remain unconvinced that other APN roles are unsuitable for those with little or no prior nursing experience, however.

[Vito Andolini]

Years ago, one could go to CRNA school just by having worked in the OR. So I would say DE is a possibility, just that CRNA school would have to teach the things you'd ordinarily learn in ICU.

[NiteyNite]

A lot of the things you do in critical care nursing a carried over to the OR during anesthesia, such as using the monitoring equipment, quickly recognizing rhythms, titrating drips, etc.... It takes experience to get proficient with doing these things; you can't just learn them in a book, and they can't be trying to teach you that while they're trying to teach you anesthesia. So no, I don't think it will ever happen. If anything I think the minimum ICU experience required will only increase, but it will probably never decrease.

[Bree124, BSN, RN]

Columbia currently offers a DE CRNA program. As far as I know, one year of mandatory ICU work is required between the RN phase and the MSN phase.

http://www.nursing.columbia.edu/admissions/etp.html

[desiremore]

I have sat down with two directors of programs (1 for CRNA and 1 for FNP) and they have shared that RN's with years of experience are not as likely to do as well academically as a fresh "boot camp" (right out of a program). But, never the less it needs to be stated that this is in reference to academics, not solid, clinical experience, of which there is no replacement.

[NiteyNite]

Columbia currently offers a DE CRNA program. As far as I know, one year of mandatory ICU work is required between the RN phase and the MSN phase.

http://www.nursing.columbia.edu/admissions/etp.html

Looks like they describe this as a BS/MS program which means you will get your Bachelors and Masters at the same time. It doesn't look like you are accepted to the CRNA program along with that. It just means you'll already have your Masters in Science or Nursing before starting the program. If you have to complete a year of ICU experience first then it's not direct entry. I think what the OP meant was starting a CRNA program directly out of their BSN program without ever having a nursing job. This is available for NP's in some programs but not for CRNA's.

[loveanesthesia]

It is a requirement for accreditation that all nurse anesthesia programs only admit RNs with an appropriate bachelor's degree and 1 year of acute care experience. The accreditation standards would have to change before a 'direct entry' program would be allowed. Many programs require more than the 1 year. From watching SRNAs in the clinical area, I think there is a 'sweet spot' of 3-4 years of ICU experience where the students do the best clinically. Some students with more or less experience struggle, but those with that range rarely do. I can't even imagine throwing a new grad RN into the OR trying to learn anesthesia, it would be doing them a grave disservice. Another important thing about the ICU experience, it shows you whether you enjoy the crisis management. If you don't, then anesthesia will be more stressful than you will enjoy.

[Bree124, BSN, RN]

Looks like they describe this as a BS/MS program which means you will get your Bachelors and Masters at the same time. It doesn't look like you are accepted to the CRNA program along with that. It just means you'll already have your Masters in Science or Nursing before starting the program. If you have to complete a year of ICU experience first then it's not direct entry. I think what the OP meant was starting a CRNA program directly out of their BSN program without ever having a nursing job. This is available for NP's in some programs but not for CRNA's.

Hmm... I thought "direct entry" was the general term for accelerated programs for people who have a non-nursing degree. In this type of program, they receive a BS(N) then an MS(N). Even though they do undergraduate courses first, they are admitted as grad students. Frequently they are admitted straight into a specialty area, such as Adults or peds.

To my knowledge (and I could be wrong about this...) Columbia offers both neonatal nurse practitioner and CRNA as part of their direct entry program, but both programs have a mandatory year of work scheduled into them. They admit into many other areas as well, but those programs don't require the year of work as part of the program.

As you know, it's not possible to become a CRNA without at least one year of critical care experience. So yes, these students are admitted as CRNA students before they ever take a nursing class. However, they have to complete the BS portion first, and do the mandatory year of work that is required before they can do the CRNA portion.

Any Columbia students can correct me if I am wrong about this!