I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.
Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!
I'm not saying a BSN is not beneficial, but making generalizations about nurses with other educational backgrounds is just wrong.
Agreed, which is why is said at the end of my giant rambling monologue that yes, a person can gain these things through life experiences, but their degree doesn't verify that they do possess that knowledge. I'm trying my best to NOT generalize. I'm sorry it came across that I did.
I agree with greentea's last post which I for some reason am having a hard time quoting.
A person can gain what they feel is valuable to THEM in their degree. Multiple commenters in this thread have responded saying that all that extra fluff isn't going to serve them as nurses. For me personally, I feel like it will. Perhaps that is naive since I am a newbie, and I'm the first to accept it may be. I'm proud of my degree and the education it has given me. I've gained a lot from my non-nursing classes that I do feel at times had expanded what we are presented in nursing school, or my interactions with patients. It's largely been a wonderful experience, and I'm glad I chose BSN. That is MY experience, though, and others feel differently. I hope they appreciate their programs as much as I've appreciated mine.
"The other factor to consider, which we see constantly with younger grads, is that they have rarely, if ever, experienced failure or ever heard evaluation words any less positive than "Great job! You are so awesome!" They bump up against the real world (and this is not just in nursing, by any stretch at all) and get tepid evals, or less than unconditional acceptance, or (OMG!) corrective suggestions, and fall apart over the mean person who did this awful thing to them and didn't make them feel welcome or recognize their awesomeness. This is not "eating young." In terms of nursing diagnosis, this is, "Ineffective role performance related to young age, unrealistic role expectations, and inadequate role socialization, as evidenced by anxiety, inadequate adaptation to change, and ineffective coping." "
I found that nursing diagnosis in NANDA-I 2012-2014. Extra points if you do, and tell me what page it's on. :)
Interesting diagnosis, I wonder what program that was because it sounds wonderful! No criticism? No failures? Certainly not the kind of school I attended. Nothing was sugar coated nor spoon fed to us from what I remember. We received a good healthy dose of A** chewing on a weekly basis. In fact when it came down to discovering our final grades, we all stood in line and attention, single file next to the directors door. One at a time a student would enter. You wait about 5-10 minutes per person. If they come out with tears streaked down their face walking with their head down passing the rest of the awaiting students, chances are you weren't going to see that person again. And you didn't. Then it was finally your turn. How mortifying to face the rest of the class after just receiving the merciless news that you can not continue with the program (because frankly, you're just not good enough) and can not come back either. "Great job!" Or "You are awesome!" wasn't heard by anyone until maybe graduation day. Although I did hear a lot of "NOs" and "You're not even close" and even the occasional "What the heck were you even thinking?" Failure and harsh criticism could have very well been a freshman course. And something we all faced and are prepared to face the first day of our nursing career, as well as the remainder. There's no arguing that young age absolutely contributes to ineffective role performance. Or more so that it is lack of experience. Not necessarily because they wiped our butts for us during school. I don't recall that at least. Love the diagnosis though, very amusing.
"The other factor to consider, which we see constantly with younger grads, is that they have rarely, if ever, experienced failure or ever heard evaluation words any less positive than "Great job! You are so awesome!" They bump up against the real world (and this is not just in nursing, by any stretch at all) and get tepid evals, or less than unconditional acceptance, or (OMG!) corrective suggestions, and fall apart over the mean person who did this awful thing to them and didn't make them feel welcome or recognize their awesomeness. This is not "eating young." In terms of nursing diagnosis, this is, "Ineffective role performance related to young age, unrealistic role expectations, and inadequate role socialization, as evidenced by anxiety, inadequate adaptation to change, and ineffective coping." "
I found that nursing diagnosis in NANDA-I 2012-2014. Extra points if you do, and tell me what page it's on. :)
This is a Gen Y thing. Sorry to all the Gen Y's who would jump all over this. It's the truth.
The thought is definitely scary since I too am going through a lot to get finish my associates and have heard about the difficulties it takes to find employment but I guess this is what the economy is coming to especially with the surplus of nurses that schools are putting out not to say that an ADN wouldn't qualify but I guess they are wanting the best of the best and people who dedicated themselves to making a BSN a priority even though it's pretty unfair but I guess more education equals more. I'm not saying that you can't find anything with your associates it's just probably going to be harder and we have to go the extra mile if this is what we really want to do. Money is what is driving revenue these days! Sorry to hear about your experience. Hope everything works out!
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
How is it unfair that those of us getting a BSN made that our priority?
It's unfair because they are both APPROVED entry level education and they are both approved by the state BON to sit for NCLEX just like everyone else. They paid for an education just like everyone else. It's unfair to tell competent seasoned nurses that a few college courses online make them a better nurse when they can out perform a BSN grad any day.
While I think that some of the modern day ADN programs in particular some for profit programs are not "up to snuff" so to speak. They are APPROVED by the state BON to sit for the entry level exam. Just like every other student that sits for that exam. These schools charge more than what it will cost my daughter for a 4 year degree from a competitive school.
My particular ADN program is no longer offered at the 4 year college I went to...it is now the ABSN curriculum...verbatim. Making my ADN education no less valuable than any other education. Do I have a BSN? yes i do....bought and paid for by my old facility. Would I have done it without financing from them? Probably not. Did it enhance my nursing practice? Uhm...after 24 years at the bedside and already in a director position? NO...it didn't.
Magnet? Is nothing but a bunch of nurses who got together on a business venture and sold the idea. They are now on easy street. I say kudos to them.
Personally...if the profession wants BSN entry they should just make it BSN entry. Period. Make the transition permanently instead of talking about it for 40 years. DO SOMETHING! Yet they have allowed more and more ADN programs to proliferate churning hundreds of grads every six months taking these students money and laughing to the bank. If the BON felt so strongly about this they would not approve all of these schools to sit for boards.
I think it is passive aggressive behavior. One one hand they do not want ADN grads and yet get research money to endlessly study this issue..... for over 40 years. Talk about creating your own job market niche/revenue source. On the other hand they continue to approve these schools, especially the for profit ones that have proliferated over the last 5 years, an allow them to sit for boards and hire nursing instructors.
If the nursing community really feels that the BSN is the only competent entry and do not want multi-level entry....or feel it is inferior. Get a pair and get rid of it. Grandfather the seasoned nurses with greater than lets say 10 years. Require others to get it within 10 WITH tuition assistance and be done with the endless bickering.
I wholeheartedly agree with the grandfathering and tuition assistance if thats the way it needs to go.
I'm thinking I ready that quote differently than you did, and probably you are the one who is right. I think I took it personally - like it bothers them that I chose the BSN because it gives me, personally, an advantage.
I initially chose BSN for that exact reason (and because my end goal is NP), actually, knowing I'd end up being more employable. I made that choice using the same information that everyone else has access to. We choose the degree we want and are capable of doing at the time we do it, and we should all be researching the consequences of doing so. Maybe I do have more doors opening to me, but I've spent 2 more years and a ton more money getting them opened. That's the consequence to that choice. An ADN goes less in debt and can get employed in less time, but will not have as many opportunities. I couldn't imagine saying its unfair that an ADN got a job in half the time and half the money. We made these decisions with facts in front of us. If we chose to ignore those facts, that's not an issue of fairness.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
But the NCLEX and nursing boards feel differently. If they didn't they would not allow the ADN to sit for exams if they weren't considered "equal".
I am so with you....my daughter wants to be a nurse....despite my sincere reality talk with her. But I am pleased as punch that she wants to be one. She will be a good nurse. I'm proud of her. I did not have the choice. BSN was the APRN path. ADN schools were newish and at the collegiate level at 4 year universities.
Her future is a BSN. No question about that...NONE. As the profession goes forward there is really no other option for those who are entering the profession today. When she (we) checked out programs the reputable ADN programs were ALL private although NOT FOR PROFIT. They were ALL $27,000.00 and up for the ADN in state (well private school don't do instate it's one flat rate/expensive). ($27.985.00 to $48,695.00) and they were ALL 3 year programs. Instate at the school with the best NCLEX pass over all of them is $32,00.00 (consistently the top 5) is a 4 year BSN...kind of a no brainer. MOST of the nurse residency programs are ALL BSN only. The writing is on the wall.
But for old broads like me...the RN BSN really doesn't add much to my experience. Heck when I went to school the BSN was THE APRN track and the MD's HATED APRN's in those days.
I just wish "the profession" as a whole would just take the bull by the horns and do it. It is so counter productive on this current path.
It's unfair because they are both APPROVED entry level education and they are both approved by the state BON to sit for NCLEX just like everyone else. They paid for an education just like everyone else. It's unfair to tell competent seasoned nurses that a few college courses online make them a better nurse when they can out perform a BSN grad any day.
You may consider it "unfair," but it's within the rights of employers to make that decision. Employers get multiple applications (many applications, these days) for open positions, and the employer is free to use whatever criteria the employer chooses (within the requirements of state and Federal employment and Equal Opportunity laws) to decide who to hire. "Pay(ing) for an education" doesn't guarantee anyone anything other than the education. Times and expectations change. What's the old cliche' about moving forward or dying?
Sorry to hear about your experience. Hope everything works out!
ixchel
4,547 Posts
Agreed, which is why is said at the end of my giant rambling monologue that yes, a person can gain these things through life experiences, but their degree doesn't verify that they do possess that knowledge. I'm trying my best to NOT generalize. I'm sorry it came across that I did.
I agree with greentea's last post which I for some reason am having a hard time quoting.
A person can gain what they feel is valuable to THEM in their degree. Multiple commenters in this thread have responded saying that all that extra fluff isn't going to serve them as nurses. For me personally, I feel like it will. Perhaps that is naive since I am a newbie, and I'm the first to accept it may be. I'm proud of my degree and the education it has given me. I've gained a lot from my non-nursing classes that I do feel at times had expanded what we are presented in nursing school, or my interactions with patients. It's largely been a wonderful experience, and I'm glad I chose BSN. That is MY experience, though, and others feel differently. I hope they appreciate their programs as much as I've appreciated mine.