I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.
Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!
I'm talking about entry level positions. My point is any new grad RN is capable for that and no one should be excluded due to their type of degree. I'm not degrading BSN but I am making a very important observation. A BSN can only earn you on average a 30 cent raise some hospitals don't give you anything for going back to school. How much do they really truly value your education for 30 cents? Or for nothing? I suspect a second agenda going on here, and that's my opinion.[/quote']
I gain intrinsic reward from having knowledge secondary to nursing due to pursuing a BSN as opposed to an ADN or diploma. A hospital or other employer gains a person who has been educated in topics beyond nursing. Does that knowledge directly apply to nursing care? No. But it does give me the ability to relate to patients on topics I may not have understood beforehand. It gives me the ability to view topics of health on a more global level. It allows me to understand social issues that I may encounter from a deeper historical perspective. It verifies I can do more than write and understand English beyond English 101. ADN grads and diploma grads may be able to do that as well, but their degree doesn't include that, and therefore doesn't prove that. Again, I'm not saying one is better than the other, and each method of getting licensed does have large merits. But I do feel that I and other BSN grads gain just as much for our degrees as employers do. There isn't a secondary agenda here. BSNs go to school longer and gain broader knowledge that might benefit us and our employers, and that is what some employers seek when they say "BSN only". It's a different type of degree with different types of knowledge, and facilities have every right to say that's what they prefer.
I have both a BSN and a prior degree, so I really don't have a dog in this fight; plus, I am nearing retirement and don't plan to obtain anything more. From my personal 25 years of working as a registered nurse, I have seen and heard over and over how the BSN is supposedly superior to the ADN and diploma nurses. Sorry, but not true! There is precious little difference in all three, but the diploma and ADN nurses seem to be able to actually function as nurses much better. The ADN programs have plenty of theory and pathophysiology, plus they actually teach skills. I get called every single day that I work, to go start IV's, place N/G tubes, and other simple, basic stuff that the BSN nurses can't do! It doesn't matter if you know the "theory" behind it, if you can't perform. The sick patient would rather have a competent nurse who can perform, rather than one who can quote Shakespeare and write a speech. I remember the diploma programs, and they prepared the nurse to actually function as an RN. Also, I have never worked in any hospital that paid more than 25 cents/hr for a BSN. I truly feel sorry for the RN's who are having to go back to school and shell out tons of money for those humanities classes, esp. to go back to work doing the same job as you had before, with debt. I was fortunate because tuition wasn't nearly so high way back when I went; if I had to do it today, I wouldn't be able to afford to. Keep your chin up, and don't let anyone criticize your education, esp. when you took the same boards and hold the same license.
Specializes in med, surg,trauma, triage, research.
phew what a happy ending, but after all that what about the global shortage of young people on its way ? - then it won't matter what qualification anyone has - as long as they can care. Doesn't make any difference where I work I cannot teach someone to care, they do or they don't, the ones who care can read the ill patient like a book, don't matter which varsity they went to. Good Luck to you StephdRN, hope you have a long and rewarding career
Oh, need to add: The same tired argument has been around since I first went to nursing school in the 80's. I have worked as an RN for 25 years, and today we are still comparing the diploma/ADN/BSN nurses. Once the supply of nurses diminishes again, hiring managers will be thrilled to hire whoever has a license.
But it does give me the ability to relate to patients on topics I may not have understood beforehand.
I know, just the other day I was discussing quantum physics with my alcoholic encephalopathic patient who was screaming and throwing things because we wouldn't let him go outside and smoke....
I have seen and heard over and over how the BSN is supposedly superior to the ADN and diploma nurses. Sorry, but not true!
There is a place for all of us. Requiring a BSN for entry to the bedside is just plain silly and short sighted. People get mad when I say this, but if they keep this up they shouldn't be surprised when all of their highly educated staff thinks they're too good to wipe a butt.
Well I started this thread because I wanted some feedback from others on my experience as well as share my personal opinion. I also wanted to tell everyone that I got called back from that same place to interview again and got offered a position on the spot! Very unexpected, however the second person who interviewed me adored diploma nurses and placed an expectation on me that I will be ahead of the game. Challenge accepted. I guess it just comes down to personal opinion. The truth is most diploma programs bring out good, well rounded ENTRY level nurses. And so do most ASN/BSN. Too many people are jumping on the higher education band wagon thing, and its all for the wrong reasons. The only "person" that really benefit from this higher education are the banks and universities. And that's my personal opinion. Some people just get taught to think a certain way about diploma or ASN nurses. So its up to us to step up to the plate and show them that their belief of us being "less qualified" may not actually be true and that a diploma RN or ASN RN nurse is just worthy of a chance as a BSN RN. It seems that hospital diploma programs are going extinct and it's a real shame. Theres something special about those types of programs and the experience they give is one of a kind. The "Corporate" business taking-over epidemic doesn't only exist in the retail world.
Good for you! Told ya to pay that first interviewer no mind! Now go out there and run circles/show em what you can do.
There is a place for all of us. Requiring a BSN for entry to the bedside is just plain silly and short sighted. People get mad when I say this, but if they keep this up they shouldn't be surprised when all of their highly educated staff thinks they're too good to wipe a butt.
This was exactly my point of the entire thread! Not to bash the BSN nurse or the ASN/diploma. But to express my frustration in the requirement of a BSN for ENTRY level new grad TRAINING positions! Short sighted couldn't be any better in describing that. Not to mention it was put as a requirement for applying to have a BSN and I just said "I don't think so!" And applied anyway because I was confident in the education I did recieve and knew I was worth the chance, even without the BSN next to my name. And maybe HR missed it and it's a good thing because if they hadn't, I would have never been offered the time of day due to my diploma and lost the opportunity to really show them my potential. It's not doing anyone any favors by limiting the requirements for entry level positions. The ASN/diploma nurses lose out on job opportunities and the hospitals lose out on a entire selection of nurses who also have a lot to offer. No one wins. (Except for the banks and universities, still on that theory
There is definitely a lack of tact at times when discussing differences between Diploma, ADN, and BSN nursing. I was a diploma RN prior to my BSN and felt perfectly appropriate for the position I was in (Director of Nursing). Now, when I went to BSN school, I really found out the difference. The thing is that as a manager, if I have a BSN new grad and a Diploma new grad, and they were both good interviews, I'll take the BSN grad. Now, if the Diploma grad wowed me, of course I'd pick him/her. Personality goes a long way in selecting the right candidate, but the problem is that there are a lot of BSN grads now, so it's going to get more difficult. In a way, the hiring manager is correct. If you look up the difference between an AAS (Associate in Applied Science) versus other degrees, regardless of whether it is nursing or social work or any other Associates, that degree IS designed to be an APPLIED, technical position. That being said, I'm sorry that you went through this, and NO, you are *NOT* a subpar nurse or any less of a nurse, it's just the market that we are in and the drive for nursing in it's desire to be a true profession.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
it does give me the ability to relate to patients on topics I may not have understood beforehand. It gives me the ability to view topics of health on a more global level. It allows me to understand social issues that I may encounter from a deeper historical perspective.
You've never met my father. He can talk to anyone about anything. I inherited his talent to be able to chat someone up who on the surface appears to be the sort of person who would have nothing in common with me. I don't ride motorcycles, but when I was taking care of a surly biker dude who didn't want to answer my questions to get him ready for the OR, I just mentioned that I had been to Sturgis several years ago. (Sturgis, SD is like the Mecca for bikers.) After that, I was golden. My angry oncology patient warmed up to me almost right away when, having noticed he was a baseball fan, I started talking about my beloved Yankees, and the trials and travails of being the daughter of Philly fans. My Spanish speaking patients loved that I could talk to them in their language. My guitar playing oncology patient talked to me about the technicalities in playing the instrument when I shared with him that I played the piano, and had tried, and failed, in my attempts to play the guitar.
On the other hand, I've never had a discussion with anyone about the French Revolution or the mujahadeen in Sudan who are terrorizing impoverished Sudanese, kidnapping their children and making them child slaves. I did get into a lengthy discussion (not by choice) with a patient's husband in the oncology unit about Constitutional law, so yeah, that course helped me. All the other things I mentioned in the first paragraph were knowledge I acquired through life experience.
As far as writing, I get paid to write articles for an online oncology site, so I think my writing is at least passable. All that, with just a puny diploma and some college courses when I was working on BSN completion.
It doesn't take extra degrees to connect with a patient. It does take keen observation skills. What kind of book/magazine is he reading? What is he watching on the TV? Is he wearing a t-shirt/sweatshirt from a particular sports team? I can almost always find a way to "click" with a patient. I even became very close to an Amish patient, and I generally have nothing in common with the Amish.
I'm not saying a BSN is not beneficial, but making generalizations about nurses with other educational backgrounds is just wrong.
While being able to build rapport and having a great bedside manner to accompany your technical skills as an RN is very beneficial, I don't think that is the major factor in many hospital managers preferring BSN graduates. There have been multiple studies that reveal that when hospitals staff floors with a high proportion of BSNs in the skill mix then readmissions go down. This is huge for the hospital since readmissions are very costly. With all other things being equal, the hospital is going to want the BSN simply to protect their bottom line. It may not seem fair, and as more hospitals do this other factors may emerge to indicate that this may not be the right move, but until then this is the reality of situation.
I'm not really sure. The statement that diploma nurses are just techs in an untrue statement. They have the same training and preparation as new graduate ADN/BSN.
Alas, no, they don't. And while your opinion that a new grad is a new grad is a new grad regardless of educational preparation, there is a rapidly-increasing body of good research documenting that hospital infection rates, morbidity, and mortality decrease as the staff percentage of BSNs increases. You might (might only) be close to "all the same" in the first year, but the hiring manager has to look beyond that, and, apparently, is.
I am very sorry this happened to you. However, this is not news. If you have been in school for three years, you could have discovered it (and taken it to heart) before you chose a program. I hear you about the expense. But it's water under the bridge now. Someone as well-spoken and literate as you should sail through BSN school; perhaps your next interview will allow the possibility of hire if you are enrolled in one by then.
Good luck.
Addendum: It appears you got the job. Brava! Now do go for that BSN stat, unless you intend to be at this one for your entire working life.
ixchel
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