Diploma nurses are worthless?!

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.

Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!

Other thoughts?

Specializes in critical care.

And, FWIW, I think it's foul to tell a nurse they are worthless based on their educational background. I DO think it's high time to standardize entry to practice while grandfathering in currently practicing nurses.

I agree with this very much.

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Ok, but to be clear, unlike what you claimed, there is more than one study.

The problem is going to be that research regarding effectiveness of educational levels is more than likely only going to be performed by academics. Just the way it's done. One doesn't have the research chops to conduct such studied unless one . . . well, has the academic background.

I see much of the same arguments & conspiracy theories I hear from anti-vax groups about how no published research can be trusted because it was 1. Funded by drug companies with vested interest & 2. Funded by the government who we can't trust in principle.

Fight fire with fire. Conduct your own well-designed study & provide a study that questions the value for a more highly educated nursing force. Replicating results (or debunking) them is part of the scientific process.

Problem is, that might have a real impact if there truly was only one 12 year old study to dispute, but at this point, there's a healthy and growing volume of evidence collecting.

And, FWIW, I think it's foul to tell a nurse they are worthless based on their educational background. I DO think it's high time to standardize entry to practice while grandfathering in currently practicing nurses.

But I'm afraid that nurses are going to refuse to unite on this, leave it up to hospitals to make any functional decisions, and they will choose to enforce their ideals through hiring practices.

Every study I've seen either piggy-backed or referred to the original so-called study. People like myself have to work; whereas the people spouting this BSN-makes-for-a-better-nurse nonsense are provided with almost unlimited resources to conjure up this stuff and are backed by organizations with powerful political agendas such as the AACN, ANCC, ANA, IOM.... as well as state nurse's associations. And the fact is there was no objective search for the truth; the people involved with these so-called studies were provided with all the resources they needed to bolster a certain belief.

There are critiques and studies out there that contradict the conclusions of the Aiken study, but not many because there is not much money to made by them. Manipulating nurses into dumping more money into the four year colleges and universities is where the money is. I am also well aware that people from the organizations I mentioned above are constantly looking at this site to see what nurses are saying and to make sure they quickly counter any opposition to their agenda and school of thought. I know this for certain as I spoke to one of the representatives.

I am all for nurses furthering their education if that is their choice. But after conferring with real working nurses and physicians, there is not one shred of unbiased evidence that proves any one type of nursing degree makes for a better nurse. Not one doctor or patient has ever said better care was provided by a BSN vs any other type of RN.

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Specializes in Inpatient Surgery.

I did not read this whole thread as it was too long. Most people are very supportive. This topic is huge in my ADN program. Turns out, you can thank the IOM (Institute of Medicine). "The committee recommends that the proportion of nurses with baccalaureate degrees be increased to 80 percent by 2020. " They are the ones recommending BSN nurses. Most of our large hospitals here in Seattle are not hiring ADNs. BSN only. Look into a program and reapply.

The Future of Nursing: Focus on Education - Institute of Medicine

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I did not read this whole thread as it was too long. Most people are very supportive. This topic is huge in my ADN program. Turns out, you can thank the IOM (Institute of Medicine). "The committee recommends that the proportion of nurses with baccalaureate degrees be increased to 80 percent by 2020. " They are the ones recommending BSN nurses. Most of our large hospitals here in Seattle are not hiring ADNs. BSN only. Look into a program and reapply.

The Future of Nursing: Focus on Education - Institute of Medicine

It was also the other organizations I mentioned that had a hand in this deceptive mess. The IOM considered the 2003 heavily when making its recommendation. Look at who directed the Carnegie Foundation that called for the BSN as the minimum requirement for nursing licensure.

To say these people are self-serving is a gross understatement. And if you think they'll stop with the BSN, you're sadly mistaken. While you're figuring out how you're going to finance that BSN they're are already scheming on how to get nurses running back for the Master's. That was conferred to me by an official from a state nurse's association.

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The Pittsburgh area has at least 6 hospital-based diploma programs. One in particular is known to be very difficult to get into, even more difficult to remain in and has very high NCLEX pass rate. That's the good.

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.
Every study I've seen either piggy-backed or referred to the original so-called study.

You do understand that when studies refer to other similar research, that's called a "review of the literature" and is kind of expected in professional publications?

And I suppose the conspiracy of not only State nurses's associations, but also national nurses's associations, and academia, and organizations like IOM (so not only Nursing but also Medicine).

And if you'll note, many of the studies are international, so now we have an international conspiracy at hand. So the influence of the ANA now reaches to Europe & beyond.

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You do understand that when studies refer to other similar research, that's called a "review of the literature" and is kind of expected in professional publications?

And I suppose the conspiracy of not only State nurses's associations, but also national nurses's associations, and academia, and organizations like IOM (so not only Nursing but also Medicine).

And if you'll note, many of the studies are international, so now we have an international conspiracy at hand. So the influence of the ANA now reaches to Europe & beyond.

I just love it how when anyone questions those who live in the fantasy world of academia, they automatically use the word conspiracy. Considering nursing as well as physician education is much different in foreign countries. Even if there were international studies done on nursing education in other other countries you're grasping for straws in saying that they would have any bearing on nursing here in the US. Many of those in nursing organizations are on boards, lecture or have other affiliations with colleges and universities and have much to gain by having people running back to school.

And yes, the ANA is one of the most venal, prevaricating groups known; and what they've done to new nurses in recent years is despicable. I stick to my statement because I've seen the proof, the BSN as well as Magnet Status pushes are purely money driven. And by reading the blogs, most nurses are becoming aware of that now. Academic elitists just don't like it when someone dares to tell the truth. But I have news for you, people in academia have already admitted it.

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So sorry that you had to go through this. I actually have an AD which I got in 1992. I have, on and off, worked on my BSN. I have TONS and TONS of experience in my field and the AD doesn't really hold me back unless it is an organization that requires a BSN for entry level positions. It sounds like HR may have made a mistake when allowing an appointment for you to interview. They may not even hire nurses with diplomas or AD. I have been lucky and I have enjoyed a good career with my AD, however, I am encourged to get back to school and complete my BSN. In order for me to got up the clinical ladder I need to get my BSN, so I can do all the research projects I want, join all the comette's I want but I won't get an increase on the clinical ladder with out my BSN. I encourge you to find a place where you can learn and grow that will welcome you and help you achieve your BSN. Best of luck to you!!

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