I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.
Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!
Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, Tele, Ortho, Travel Nurse.
I mean ER/PICU/ICU/Oncology nurse or manager/ supervisor position. Something that may require a little more education and expertise. Not an entry-level new grad training program.
I am an ADN RN and worked on an oncology floor right out of school, so that statement is untrue. A lot depends on the manager.
I graduated from an ADN program and I had classes in Leadership and Evidence Based Practice. Most of the papers I had to write for school were on EBP. I am currently in a BSN program and quite frankly not learning really anything new that wasn't taught to me in my ADN program.
I totally disagree with this. I am taking BSN classes now and there's an assessment class. It required me to buy tuning forks to do my assessments. I can't WAIT to join the ranks of BSN floor nurses everywhere who are using these tuning forks as part of an assessment in an acute care hospital! I've seen them doing it for years in their shift assessments and had no IDEA what they were for because I only had an associate degree.
If I was a patient I would rather have a nurse that studied nursing for four years take care of me then a nurse that studied a year or two. Same goes with any field, nursing is no exception.
You have to know the complete knowledge (which a BSN offers, such as evidence based research, leadership roles that lower degree (ADN and Diploma) don't offer) and then when you do, experience will come into play. These classes are very important in nursing. That is the reason why many hospitals prefer BSN prepared nurses.
The BSN degree will be the preferred degree now and in the future.
My 3 year ADN program included leadership in nursing, research methodology and making presentations on our research before nurses, supervisors and managers. In order to be accredited, nursing programs will have this material integrated in their coursework. I love how some nurses likje to throw around the term "evidence-based". The so-called evidence is only as good as the source is trustworthy. The so-called research that started all this in 2003 was funded, backed and presented by the very people and organizations that stood to benefit from its predetermined conclusions. They were not funded to do an unbiased research project; they were funded to postulate their belief. And you nurses that have your BSNs are not out of the woods. It was implied by a certain state nurse's association that next they will try spout forth the notion that nurses should have a master's to elevate the profession. The goal is to keep nurses running back to school as long as possible and keep that revenue coming in to all those institutions and organizations that benefit from it. Oh it's true, it's damn true.
I mean, most hospitals favor BSN nurses, but that's not exactly the final answer. There are places that will appreciate you if you just widen your search scope :)
What's worthless are self-serving nursing academic elitists who haven't touched a patient since Bill Clinton left office and have been polishing seat cushions ever since with their behinds. Their Holy Grail they try to pass as proof of why nurse's need to earn BSNs or higher was one study back in 2003 that was never replicated and filled with so much self-affirmation, flaws and biasness that the only way it could be passed off as scientific research was to make sure it was backed, funded and supported by like-minded peers and those who would benefit from its obvious predetermined conclusions.
In 2010 and 2011 they tried to manipulate nurses into spending thousands of dollars for BSNs by falsely implying that mandatory BSN legislation was imminent. Next they tried using the study and the follow-up booster shot article of 2013 to sell low informed hospital administrators and human resources twits the propaganda that instead of keeping and valuing their most experienced nurses, lower mortality rates and patient satisfaction scores would be increased by hiring new young nurses with higher nursing degrees right out of school and paying them at the bottom of the pay scale.
It's worth mentioning that the hospitals in the study with higher mortality rates had higher mean patient ages. When that was configured in the analysis, the death rates were the same as in any general population. So how did the hospitals do who were stupid enough to change nursing hiring policy based on one biased and flawed study:
A Phila. area hospital whose name has biblical significance wound up at the very bottom of the patient satisfaction score list of 45 hospitals after going to a BSN only hiring policy in late 2011. Another system named after a physics genius found themselves at number 23 after going to a BSN only hiring policy. Another university hospital named after the state it's in found themselves at 22. This is not conjecture as these numbers were published in the July 14, 2013 Phila. Inquirer. As someone who took an oath to uphold the public's best interests, I would have to recommend patients stay away from hospitals that base hiring policy on just one study even if it had credence; which this one doesn't.
Their Holy Grail they try to pass as proof of why nurse's need to earn BSNs or higher was one study back in 2003 that was never replicated and filled with so much self-affirmation, flaws and biasness that the only way it could be passed off as scientific research was to make sure it was backed, funded and supported by like-minded peers and those who would benefit from its obvious predetermined conclusions.
In 2010 and 2011 they tried to manipulate nurses into spending thousands of dollars for BSNs by falsely implying that mandatory BSN legislation was imminent. Next they tried using the study and the follow-up booster shot article of 2013 to sell low informed hospital administrators and human resources twits the propaganda that instead of keeping and valuing their most experienced nurses, lower mortality rates and patient satisfaction scores would be increased by hiring new young nurses with higher nursing degrees right out of school and paying them at the bottom of the pay scale.
It's worth mentioning that the hospitals in the study with higher mortality rates had higher mean patient ages. When that was configured in the analysis, the death rates were the same as in any general population.
Now wait a minute. I'll grant you the right to dispute the methodology of a study (I'm on my phone, so I can't analyze your claims right now).
But just one study? Maybe somebody hasn't checked the literature since 2003. . .
That's just a quickie Google search on my phone. I'm sure I could find more on my computer. And maybe you can pick apart every one of these studies, and maybe the muckety-mucks in Philadelphia made all their decisions based on one study; but I assure you, more evidence was available.
That's just a quickie Google search on my phone. I'm sure I could find more on my computer. And maybe you can pick apart every one of these studies, and maybe the muckety-mucks in Philadelphia made all their decisions based on one study; but I assure you, more evidence was available.
Yes, I saw that a few years ago. Proving my point that the BSN push was being backed, supported and funded by the very people, institutions and organizations that benefit by manipulating nurses into taking out thousands of dollars more in student loans. The only evidence is from the same like-minded, self-serving, organizations and people who supported the original research. And they've been slinging this mud around for the last ten years.
The only evidence is from the same like-minded, self-serving, organizations and people who supported the original research. And they've been slinging this mud around for the last ten years.
Ok, but to be clear, unlike what you claimed, there is more than one study.
The problem is going to be that research regarding effectiveness of educational levels is more than likely only going to be performed by academics. Just the way it's done. One doesn't have the research chops to conduct such studied unless one . . . well, has the academic background.
I see much of the same arguments & conspiracy theories I hear from anti-vax groups about how no published research can be trusted because it was 1. Funded by drug companies with vested interest & 2. Funded by the government who we can't trust in principle.
Fight fire with fire. Conduct your own well-designed study & provide a study that questions the value for a more highly educated nursing force. Replicating results (or debunking) them is part of the scientific process.
Problem is, that might have a real impact if there truly was only one 12 year old study to dispute, but at this point, there's a healthy and growing volume of evidence collecting.
And, FWIW, I think it's foul to tell a nurse they are worthless based on their educational background. I DO think it's high time to standardize entry to practice while grandfathering in currently practicing nurses.
But I'm afraid that nurses are going to refuse to unite on this, leave it up to hospitals to make any functional decisions, and they will choose to enforce their ideals through hiring practices.
Nursing has evolved from the bed side. I would say a ASN and diploma are equipped to perform leadership/administration and community based but reality is if you don't want to be in school for a million years and plan on taken on one of these roles a BSN is more valuable. In South Florida Broward/Miami the market is saturated with new grads. A diploma, ASN, BSN all start out at the same level. No Experience. No matter how difficult your program was or is.From personal experience unless you have connections or experience the BSN has more favor, especially at the magnet status hospitals. You may not be in debt when you achieve your ASN or Diploma but if you plan on furthering your career into NP, education, or administration you will not be immune to it. Nursing is not the same from 20 years ago it's a surge of people who want to be nurses because "Healthcare is where the jobs are at" so unfortunately requirements have to increase when schools are pumping out students like crazy but I believe the BSN push is dwindling because there are too many community colleges that offer ASN programs and students that are trying to run from the time and debt of a BSN program. So the solution is do what is best for your situation.
RescueNinja123
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