I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.
Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!
Then sadly for you there wouldn't be any nurses to care for you because the first two years of a BSN education are pre-reqs and gen-ed classes not nursing classes.
What are you talking about?
When I said complete education, I am talking about everything in the BSN curriculum: nursing classes, leadership, evidence based, etc..
There are many many BSN nurses already out there working.
I'm going to be replying to several posts all at once...
In a way, the hiring manager is correct. If you look up the difference between an AAS (Associate in Applied Science) versus other degrees, regardless of whether it is nursing or social work or any other Associates, that degree IS designed to be an APPLIED, technical position.
I've seen AAS degrees offered in certain technical fields, but not for Registered Nursing. The ADN/ASN is not an AAS.
I disagree with you respectfully,
If I was a patient I would rather have a nurse that studied nursing for four years take care of me then a nurse that studied a year or two. Same goes with any field, nursing is no exception.
You have to know the complete knowledge (which a BSN offers, such as evidence based research, leadership roles that lower degree (ADN and Diploma) don't offer) and then when you do, experience will come into play. These classes are very important in nursing. That is the reason why many hospitals prefer BSN prepared nurses.
The BSN degree will be the preferred degree now and in the future.
Remember that the "typical" ADN program now, with the same prerequisite courses as BSN programs, takes 4-5 years to complete... same as BSN programs. I have a Bachelors in Sports Med. If it had been an option for me, the BSN would have been "just" a 2 year program for me. Same as my ADN program. In a very real way, with the singular exception of community/public health nursing, my education is every bit as complete as a BSN program is. Would you feel the same about an ABSN or DEMSN grad that studied nursing for only a single year and not four?
What are you talking about?
When I said complete education, I am talking about everything in the BSN curriculum: nursing classes, leadership, evidence based, etc..
There are many many BSN nurses already out there working.
Don't be so certain that ADN grads don't have coursework in EBR, leadership, and the like. In my ADN program, most of those topics were built into and integrated throughout the program. The (minor) exceptions were Upper Div Gen Ed/Writing and a PHN component.
And just so you know: BSN and ABSN options weren't available to me precisely because I had a Bachelors already. The local universities that have entry-level nursing programs were closed to all 2nd Bachelors students and the DEMSN program wasn't ready to go yet. Any route I would have taken would have been 2 years or less to earn my RN.
When I said complete education, I am talking about everything in the BSN curriculum: nursing classes, leadership, evidence based, etc..
There are many many BSN nurses already out there working.
You said you only wanted to be cared for by someone who had 4 years of nursing school. No such school exists. Even a BSN only has two years of actual nursing school. The first two years are not nursing specific.
Your disdain of nurses who are not BSN trained is divisive and frankly nauseating. You openly talk about them being inferior. I don't think there is anybody who disagrees that a BSN should be the entry level to nursing but you take it to a level it should not go.
When I said complete education, I am talking about everything in the BSN curriculum: nursing classes, leadership, evidence based, etc..
There are many many BSN nurses already out there working.
She's addressing you saying you wouldn't want a nurse that only studied nursing for a year or two. BSN nurses study nursing for two years also, because there are only 2 years of nursing core courses. The first two years are gen ed prereqs. You're addressing your comment about a complete education.
I am taking liberty in responding as I am a lowly tadpole. Yes, I am a nursing student. One month in of my 16 month tour. But I can speak intelligently to this. As a former Navy Hospital Corpsman and NREMT-P, I witnessed many conversations between nurses about what they described as Bull **** Nursing. Yes, the BSN. No one really objected to a BSN on its face, but the idea that only a BSN nurse was worthy was the source of irritation. Just like paramedics. There was no college program early on and now it's only available as an Associates Degree program. Now, you pretty much are relegated to a college to become a paramedic.
If I was a patient I would rather have a nurse that studied nursing for four years take care of me then a nurse that studied a year or two. Same goes with any field, nursing is no exception.
You have to know the complete knowledge (which a BSN offers, such as evidence based research, leadership roles that lower degree (ADN and Diploma) don't offer) and then when you do, experience will come into play. These classes are very important in nursing. That is the reason why many hospitals prefer BSN prepared nurses.
The BSN degree will be the preferred degree now and in the future.
I disagree with you respectfully,
If I was a patient I would rather have a nurse that studied nursing for four years take care of me then a nurse that studied a year or two. Same goes with any field, nursing is no exception.
You have to know the complete knowledge (which a BSN offers, such as evidence based research, leadership roles that lower degree (ADN and Diploma) don't offer) and then when you do, experience will come into play. These classes are very important in nursing. That is the reason why many hospitals prefer BSN prepared nurses.
The BSN degree will be the preferred degree now and in the future.
It is pretty pathetic when the type of program an RN graduated from becomes more important than actually knowing how to do something. My program was a 3 year straight-through the summer diploma program. Of course all prerequisite courses core courses; English Comp., Math, Stat., History, Art, Philosophy.......... and all others that would be in the first two years of any Bachelor's Degree program along with the science prerequisites such as A & P I & II, Chem. Microbiology......... had to be completed with adequate grades before admission into my diploma program. As part of my diploma program, Leadership, Research, Ethics and Current Issues were all included in our coursework. We were required to make many presentations on our research. I did just as much research as I did earning my first Business Undergraduate Degree prior to nursing.
You really want to know the reason hospitals want to hire new young BSNs and push out the older experienced nurses? They want them young, wet-behind-the-ears and in debt. Due to a lack of experience and having a larger student loan debt, they are less likely to speak up about unsafe patient loads. Hospitals can also hire them at the bottom of the pay scales.
Also, many hospitals are leasing on-site space to institutions offering RN-BSN programs. Can you think of a better way to ensure that all those seats are filled and the monthly lease checks keep coming in than to for a hospital to require its nurses to earn a BSN or risk termination. After talking to a nurse's association rep, it was implied that when they can get most nurses running for a BSN, they'll then start to try to push the Master's in order to keep nurses continuously running back to school. Get the picture now. They did it with PT and after talking to a number of PTs, I found they all agreed that it was just a money-making scheme and did nothing to advance the profession; the only thing it advanced was the coffers of the universities.
Yes nurses, it is all about the money; and it's your money they want.
One only needs to look up those driving the BSN push and the organizations and institutions they are affiliated with.
Sorry, I would need quite a bit more than that to be convinced that the people advocating for higher educational standards in nursing are only interested in money, and not at all in advancing nursing ... Again, do you have any actual evidence of this?
Nurse-Prestige
37 Posts
What are you talking about?
When I said complete education, I am talking about everything in the BSN curriculum: nursing classes, leadership, evidence based, etc..
There are many many BSN nurses already out there working.