Diploma nurses are worthless?!

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.

Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!

Other thoughts?

Specializes in critical care.
I mean ER/PICU/ICU/Oncology nurse or manager/ supervisor position. Something that may require a little more education and expertise. Not an entry-level new grad training program.

If it is the hospital's expectation that an entry level nurse have a foundation in research, what unit they are placed on is irrelevant. Clinical practice changes based on research all the time in all specialties, and all levels of acuity.

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You are not a "technical" nurse.

In my diploma school, research and evidence based practice is shoved down our throat. We do research and APA format to boot.

But hospitals do tend to prefer, BSN. But my diploma school is in a hospital, (where was yours?) they basically hire all grads.

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Mine was in upstate NY, and the last program left in that state. I remember doing evidenced based research All of the time! And if they didn't like what you found, you got a nice big F on your paper. The program was rigorous with a graduation rate of a whopping 20%. They didn't mess around, and the education was valuable.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
If it is the hospital's expectation that an entry level nurse have a foundation in research, what unit they are placed on is irrelevant. Clinical practice changes based on research all the time in all specialties, and all levels of acuity.

This.

Unfortunately, you ran into a particular person who has a certain mentality; it happens in nursing-speaking from experience as a diploma educated practical nurse and LPN before getting a BSN; however your future response an actions can help; sell your clinical experience confidently, cast your net wide and go on for that BSN in the future.

Best Wishes.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
It's interesting though. If an ADN goes back to school and receives their BSN, they will receive about a 30 to 50 cent raise in their pay scale, while the student loan companies and universities get a good $30,000 pay off. So who really is benefitting from the extra education? How much does the hospital really value your extra years in school for 30 cents? There was a time where the majority of nurses came from diploma programs and were perfectly fit for the job, never required to advance their education. Just wait, after a few decades it will be required to have a Master's for an entry-level RN position. Something to think about.
sadly it is already happening.
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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Not that the diploma and BSN have the same training per say, but that they are both equally qualified to take on an entry-level training job. For a more critical job however, I could see choosing the BSN over diploma/ADN.
((HUGS)).

I am really sorry your school didn't prepare you for what laid ahead. Many positions in many areas are BSN only, Where I live even new grad "residency" programs are BSN only.

Hospitals in the surplus of nurses can pick and choose. They are choosing the BSN grads. The ADN and diplomas are not being hired in acute care. That we all pass the same boards doesn't matter in today climate.

I am so sorry.

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((HUGS)). I am really sorry your school didn't prepare you for what laid ahead.

This is why AN holds so much value to the inexperienced, such as myself:)

It's really helped me to hear the honesty of this career that's been in my heart since forever... Yet I really didn't have a clue about!

Yet strangely I still want it?

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Also, since I haven't taken a diploma or ASN program myself, I don't think it is fair for me to comment on quality. They are different, though, and it is important that you recognize that. We may take the same licensing exam, but we do have different degrees.

There is a large research component that exists throughout the entire BSN program. For my program, we have a semester early on during which we learn about research in a great level of detail, so that we can approach a research article and determine whether it should be applied to clinical practice. It's more than just picking up a journal and reading an article in it. This class provided a foundation that we have been required to incorporate into every class we've taken since. It sounds to me that that type of background is important to this facility. This is a concept that takes the BSN beyond NCLEX knowledge, and one reason why many facilities are leaning toward BSN.

I hope that this doesn't come across as dismissive or negative toward diploma or ADN grads. I don't mean it to. We all come into this journey with a giant question: what degree do I choose? And after weighing our options, we go with what feels right. We choose the one we need to to get us started. And while we do sit for the same NCLEX, the education we receive can't be called the same because it isn't.

Anyway, I don't believe that diploma nurses are worthless at all, and I think you should have been treated with respect.

I bridged into a bricks and mortar BSN program from my ADN program approximately 17 years ago. The BSN program, at a well regarded state university, is accredited. I graduated with honors from both programs and joined Sigma Theta Tau in my final BSN semester. I am not attempting to generalize my comments to all BSN programs, as I can only speak for the program I attended, in my area, where the research class, amongst others, was taken jointly by generic BSN students and ADN-BSN students. Some of the courses in my ADN-BSN program were good courses, and I believe did contribute to my becoming a better nurse than if I hadn't taken them. The research class was a decent one, and was useful and important, no doubt, but there was nothing earth shattering about it, AT ALL, and could have been taken as an online or CEU course. Generic BSN students and ADN-BSN students all passed the class. The four unit college statistics class I took was a far harder and far more useful class to me as far as teaching me how to appraise research and statistical methods.

However, when we came to hands on nursing care, during our community health practicum, which both generic BSN students and ADN-BSN students again took jointly, the generic BSN students were much less competent and confident than the ADN-BSN students (and I am referring to new grad ADN students who bridged directly into the BSN program, not ADN trained nurses who were already working as nurses). Several generic BSN students told me in the final semesters that they had received hardly any clinical training and didn't feel prepared to be nurses.

In my ADN program many students had prior degrees and careers, and all kinds of life experience, and ranged in age from early twenties to 60 +. One person had a degree in mathematics; another was a paramedic and firefighter. The ability to think critically and utilize research was obtained for them through their prior education, career and life experience, and their own intelligence, and they were not limited by not having taken a BSN research class.

I have been a nurse for 19 years. I have to agree with a poster on another thread that I do see that BSN trained nurses are desired in many areas by employers, but I, like this other poster, do not believe it is because of their presumed enhanced abilities in regard to research. I believe it is because they are less expensive for employers as they usually have more debt than ADN/diploma graduates, and are generally younger (as a group) than ADN students (as a group), and are considered more 'mouldable' employees with generally fewer health problems/health risks than ADN grads (as a group). Remember, my ADN class was comprised of people from their 20's to their 60's, many of whom had a lot of prior education, career, and life experience, who did not incur any debt or very much debt through attending the ADN program, and who were not inexperienced in employment situations.

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My diploma school may not have prepared me for this BSN road block (which I still believe to be outrageous and unnecessary) But it did thoroughly prepare me to be a good and competent novice nurse. And that's what I know truly counts.

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To OP; girl don't even give that woman another sustained thought. It was her loss not yours, time to move onwards and upwards.

Just be aware in some states diploma nurses are about as rare as finding one that wears a cap, and yes many places stopped hiring diploma grads for various reasons sometimes long ago.

In NYS for instance there is only *one* diploma school and it is way upstate somewhere. All the other hospital affiliated or based nursing programs converted to associate degrees or closed. Asked someone years ago why and was told "no one would hire them". Don't know if that is true or false so take it with a grain of salt.

Now just a few states over in PA they seem to love themselves some diploma grads. IIRC a few old diploma programs reopened to meet "demand" or some such.

You might want to consider starting a RN to BSN bridge just in case. It may help blunt the *horror* of another recruiter to find she is in the room with a *diploma* nurse! *LOL*

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
My diploma school may not have prepared me for this BSN road block (which I still believe to be outrageous and unnecessary) But it did thoroughly prepare me to be a good and competent novice nurse. And that's what I know truly counts.

I am sure your school prepared you...you passed the boards.

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Specializes in critical care.
My diploma school may not have prepared me for this BSN road block (which I still believe to be outrageous and unnecessary) But it did thoroughly prepare me to be a good and competent novice nurse. And that's what I know truly counts.

Hugs to you - big ones, at that. What you say here is one of the most important things of all. In my area of the country, non-BSN grads are most likely to be found in LTC settings. How do you feel about LTC?

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