I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.
Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!
I bridged into a bricks and mortar BSN program from my ADN program approximately 17 years ago. The BSN program at a well regarded state university, is accredited. I graduated with honors from both programs and joined Sigma Theta Tau in my final BSN semester. I am not attempting to generalize my comments to all BSN programs, as I can only speak for the program I attended, in my area, where the research class, amongst others, was taken jointly by generic BSN students and ADN-BSN students. Some of the courses in my ADN-BSN program were good courses, and I believe did contribute to my becoming a better nurse than if I hadn't taken them. The research class was a decent one, and was useful and important, no doubt, but there was nothing earth shattering about it, AT ALL, and could have been taken as an online or CEU course. Generic BSN students and ADN-BSN students all passed the class. The four unit college statistics class I took was a far harder and far more useful class to me as far as teaching me how to appraise research and statistical methods. However, when we came to hands on nursing care, during our community health practicum, which both generic BSN students and ADN-BSN students again took jointly, the generic BSN students were much less competent and confident than the ADN-BSN students (and I am referring to new grad ADN students who bridged directly into the BSN program, not ADN trained nurses who were already working as nurses). Several generic BSN students told me in the final semesters that they had received hardly any clinical training and didn't feel prepared to be nurses. In my ADN program many students had prior degrees and careers, and all kinds of life experience, and ranged in age from early twenties to 60 +. One person had a degree in mathematics; another was a paramedic and firefighter. The ability to think critically and utilize research was obtained for them through their prior education, career and life experience, and their own intelligence, and they were not limited by not having taken a BSN research class. I have been a nurse for 19 years. I have to agree with a poster on another thread that I do see that BSN trained nurses are desired in many areas by employers, but I, like this other poster, do not believe it is because of their presumed enhanced abilities in regard to research. I believe it is because they are less expensive for employers as they usually have more debt than ADN/diploma graduates, and are generally younger (as a group) than ADN students (as a group), and are considered more 'mouldable' employees with generally fewer health problems/health risks than ADN grads (as a group). Remember, my ADN class was comprised of people from their 20's to their 60's, many of whom had a lot of prior education, career, and life experience, who did not incur any debt or very much debt through attending the ADN program, and who were not inexperienced in employment situations.[/quote']
I had not considered the age difference and cost benefit before. Thank you for sharing that perspective.
Bridging into a BSN program is a good idea to help give me brownie points to the recruiter who has a negative view about diploma nurses. With that said I would like to hear opinions about any online BSN programs. I've heard that Grand Canyon is a good education. However the woman who interviewed me told me Kaiser (sp?) isn't so good. Who knows! There are so many to choose from, how do you find out what is good? And affordable?
A feel completely ok about long term care nursing. But I'm even seeing that all the local ones require experience which I just don't have yet until someone gives me the opportunity! I feel like I'm in a hole that I can't get out of with that. I've always had a strong interest in psych nursing and did well and have considered going for psychiatric NP. But I can't seem to find a position willing to take on a new grad anywhere, yet.
I mean ER/PICU/ICU/Oncology nurse or manager/ supervisor position. Something that may require a little more education and expertise. Not an entry-level new grad training program.
I graduated from a diploma program 6 years ago and myself and my classmates took jobs in ER, ICU, oncology, pediatrics, PICU, OR, and literally every other specialty you can imagine after graduating. Most new grads have very little training in school in these areas, my school did at least require an 8 week ICU rotation and a 4 week pediatric rotation.
Furthermore, some of my classmates whose highest level of education is a diploma are now working as care coordinators, managers, and mentoring new grads
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I meant retrain as in having to replace anyone with a lesser degree and train someone else - essentially training 2 people for the job. If you moved away from your school then I wonder if the manager misunderstood that you are a new grad Diploma RN and assumed you were an LPN. I wasn't even aware there were still diploma schools around anymore. She may have assumed you were an LPN, but she should have let you explain instead of assuming.
Diploma grads are not "lesser" nurses; they are registered nurses just as graduates from baccalaureate programs are registered nurses. The manager was certainly lacking in people skills. If she was only interested in hiring BSNs, why did she bring you in for an interview? She must not have read your CV. Any manager who doesn't know the difference between a diploma grad and an LPN is a manager I wouldn't want to work for. (By that I mean that sort of manager doesn't know the most basic details about nursing education; no swipe against LPNs.)
I graduated from a diploma program 29y ago. Times were different back then, and the push for BSN wasn't like it is now. Nevertheless, I was able to get almost every job I applied for.
You may have to really sell yourself to stand out from the BSNs who will be competing with you for jobs. Do you know a second language? What were some of the stand-out points of your program? Did you work as a CNA while you were in school? Can you have someone professionally review your resume?
Don't give up...diploma grads are excellent nurses. It's likely you'll have to do a bridge program and get that BSN, but don't sell your education short. We all took the same licensure exam.
From what I know of diploma programs, the grads were very well prepared to take on the RN role from day one, no "residency" and no "handholding" required. The experience was lost in the BSN programs that focused less on the clinical portion (a good read is Cooked by Carol Karels, about her diploma training at Cook County in Illinois). They have lost favor but it wasn't that long ago that the diploma schools were well-known and well-respected for their top notch grads.
You may need to inform those in hiring that you are indeed well prepared for entry level to practice.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
badbuggies:
I had the same experience. The working nurses in the hospital where I came from in NY all preferred to train the diploma RN's over both ADN and BSN, stating that they had more experience and practice which made it easier for them. The diploma nurses were top dog and that was what I was used too. So it was a culture shock to move to FL and then be looked down upon. And believe me when I say I absolutely want to go back for my BSN so I can move up eventually and get a management position. But I need to work first, and advance my education as I advance in my career and can afford it. It seems the right way to go, education wise and financially speaking.
I would emphasize your desire to complete your BSN in your next interviews. Let the person interviewing you know that your education is not finished.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I mean ER/PICU/ICU/Oncology nurse or manager/ supervisor position. Something that may require a little more education and expertise. Not an entry-level new grad training program.
I worked in the ED and in outpatient oncology with no more than a diploma. I did have my oncology certification, though. It's a lot about how you sell yourself. For e.g., if you are interviewing for an oncology position, let the manager know you are willing to take the Chemotherapy/Biotherapy course from the Oncology Nurses Society.
When I initially graduated, my fellow classmates were getting hired for many "acute" care positions. ER, ICU, NICU. Is was common to see only diploma educated nurses working in these places fresh out of school. But since moving and having this "bad luck", I've somewhat convinced myself that that is not going to happen and I should thank my lucky stars if I get anything. Not what I was first expecting.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
When I initially graduated, my fellow classmates were getting hired for many "acute" care positions. ER, ICU, NICU. Is was common to see only diploma educated nurses working in these places fresh out of school. But since moving and having this "bad luck", I've somewhat convinced myself that that is not going to happen and I should thank my lucky stars if I get anything. Not what I was first expecting.
Must you stay in FL? If jobs for diploma grads are more plentiful back in NY, can you move back there? I know that would be quite expensive, as well as a big pain in the patoot, but FL isn't exactly known for being "nurse friendly," and it has some of the lowest wages in the country.
I was doing a BSN completion through University of Wisconsin-Green Bay. I really liked their program, and IIRC there's only one clinical component...community health. I had to drop out due to serious health issues, and what was really nice was I got a card from the faculty and my academic advisor. They said if I ever wanted to return, I was welcome to come back.
When I initially graduated my fellow classmates were getting hired for many "acute" care positions. ER, ICU, NICU. Is was common to see only diploma educated nurses working in these places fresh out of school. But since moving and having this "bad luck", I've somewhat convinced myself that that is not going to happen and I should thank my lucky stars if I get anything. Not what I was first expecting.[/quote']
Just curious but why did you move immediately after graduation? Some parts of the country are not as fond of hiring diploma grads or are BSN only. You would have had better luck finding a job in a hospital local to your school where they are familiar with diploma grads as well as the school.
As someone who entered the profession as an RN-diploma, I know it is tough. I worked at a hospital affiliated with my diploma program for 1.5 years while I did an RN-BSN program, after which I moved to a major US metro area. I know I would never have had a chance of getting hired here with a diploma, sad but true
ixchel
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