Diploma nurses are worthless?!

[stephdRN]

I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.

Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!

Other thoughts?

[eCCU]

Sorry terrible communication skills for a management position. Don't let the first person diminish your worth. Check out the facilities that are hiring diploma nurses in your area. Keep in mind that the high acuity areas are now BSN only. Hang in there and when you get that position I would recommend joining an online diploma-BSN program. Best wishes.

Ps...I agree with above post emphasize on the RN.

[stephdRN]

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I won't let it stop me, I need a job after all. It's tough out there for new graduate nurses and the fact that I have little experience works against me. The last thing I want to hear is the type of education I have is also working against me.

[TiffyRN, BSN, PhD]

Stephd:

Rotten, rotten deal. Sounds like this organization isn't that "organized". And by the way; congratulations on finishing and passing your NCLEX!

Even though this NM was extremely rude and abrupt, you need to know that this is the current trend. This board is filled with new graduates that can't find jobs. Others can speak with more authority but I have not heard that Miami is particularly new graduate friendly. Many new graduates (regardless of degree) are struggling to find acute care positions. Non-BSN grads seem to be struggling more.

As far as this rude NM referring to Diploma grads as "technical nurses", this is the term (used by the ANA I believe) which they apply to Diploma and ADN graduates. She didn't pull that one out of her uh-hum.

I have worked with a few Diploma graduates (mostly older nurses as most programs have closed) and they were/are all excellent, I envy the training they received compared to my initial ADN program.

[stephdRN]

It's interesting though. If an ADN goes back to school and receives their BSN, they will receive about a 30 to 50 cent raise in their pay scale, while the student loan companies and universities get a good $30,000 pay off. So who really is benefitting from the extra education? How much does the hospital really value your extra years in school for 30 cents? There was a time where the majority of nurses came from diploma programs and were perfectly fit for the job, never required to advance their education. Just wait, after a few decades it will be required to have a Master's for an entry-level RN position. Something to think about.

[ixchel]

While I definitely agree that this person has terrible communication skills, I also think that before you circulate your resume more, you need to look closely at each place to know what their expectations are before this kind of thing comes up again. Probably this woman was annoyed that you didn't do your research on that. I don't think that excuses her to behave the way she did, though.

I am sorry for the frustration you are feeling right now. Understand, though, that there is a difference in the education received at the diploma, ASN, and BSN levels. I wont comment to whether any one level is better than another because that isn't the point of this thread. Also, since I haven't taken a diploma or ASN program myself, I don't think it is fair for me to comment on quality. They are different, though, and it is important that you recognize that. We may take the same licensing exam, but we do have different degrees.

There is a large research component that exists throughout the entire BSN program. For my program, we have a semester early on during which we learn about research in a great level of detail, so that we can approach a research article and determine whether it should be applied to clinical practice. It's more than just picking up a journal and reading an article in it. This class provided a foundation that we have been required to incorporate into every class we've taken since. It sounds to me that that type of background is important to this facility. This is a concept that takes the BSN beyond NCLEX knowledge, and one reason why many facilities are leaning toward BSN.

I hope that this doesn't come across as dismissive or negative toward diploma or ADN grads. I don't mean it to. We all come into this journey with a giant question: what degree do I choose? And after weighing our options, we go with what feels right. We choose the one we need to to get us started. And while we do sit for the same NCLEX, the education we receive can't be called the same because it isn't.

Anyway, I don't believe that diploma nurses are worthless at all, and I think you should have been treated with respect.

[badbuggies]

Unfortunately, there are those out in the world who believe diploma nurses are on a lower level than nurses with degrees. I graduated from a diploma program over 30 years ago. I have seen and worked with many new nurses from all different types of programs. In my experience, nurses from diploma programs have had an easier time adjusting to working as a RN due to the number of clinical hours received in their education.

[MrChicagoRN, RN]

The statement that diploma nurses are just techs in an untrue statement.

They have the same training and preparation as new graduate ADN/BSN.

Your 1st statement is correct, but not the 2nd one.

I was a diploma grad, and chose that over an ADN due to the increased clinical time. In the market place, the ADN & the Diploma are equivalent. When I run through resumes I place the diplomas with the associates degrees when I decide who I will be interviewing.

However, the training and preparation and training is not the same as a BSN.

Diploma schools are pretty rare now. Did the recruiter perhaps see the word diploma and misread that you had a BSN diploma? I'm wondering if a little educational blurb in your cover letter that describes your comprehensive training might not be helpful.

In any event, good luck to you in your search.

[stephdRN]

badbuggies:

I had the same experience. The working nurses in the hospital where I came from in NY all preferred to train the diploma RN's over both ADN and BSN, stating that they had more experience and practice which made it easier for them. The diploma nurses were top dog and that was what I was used too. So it was a culture shock to move to FL and then be looked down upon. And believe me when I say I absolutely want to go back for my BSN so I can move up eventually and get a management position. But I need to work first, and advance my education as I advance in my career and can afford it. It seems the right way to go, education wise and financially speaking.

[stephdRN]

Not that the diploma and BSN have the same training per say, but that they are both equally qualified to take on an entry-level training job. For a more critical job however, I could see choosing the BSN over diploma/ADN.

[ixchel]

Not that the diploma and BSN have the same training per say but that they are both equally qualified to take on an entry-level training job. For a more critical job however, I could see choosing the BSN over diploma/ADN.[/quote']

What do you mean by a "more critical job"?

[stephdRN]

I mean ER/PICU/ICU/Oncology nurse or manager/ supervisor position. Something that may require a little more education and expertise. Not an entry-level new grad training program.

[HappyWife77, BSN, RN]

That was one person....try some where else.

One thing at a time. Try to enjoy your time now with your daughter. Hopefully God will put your perfect partner in your life...and you will realize that guy was not the one for you.

Good Luck.?