CRNA Mills?

Nursing Students SRNA

Published

While perusing these forums over the years, I've seen mention of "CRNA mills" or "puppy mills" in regard to low quality CRNA programs either pumping out students with the bare minimum qualifications (cases, etc) or simply failing students out after they've already paid a great deal of money. For example, this post (though a few years old), mentions the states of Florida and Texas as being contributors to hosting these "CRNA mill" programs.

So, does anybody have any insight into exactly which specific programs these are? I've noticed a common theme on this forum in regard to people not mentioning the name of their program whether good or bad which, I think is a disservice to both a good program (should someone want to apply there), and to prospective students who might be looking at a bad program who could otherwise be saved the time, effort and money if students and/or CRNAs of such programs could simply state "Yes, I attend[ed] CRNA program XYZ and it's not good because..."

For what it's worth, I live in Florida and am mainly looking at programs here. One can only deduce so much information from visiting a program's website so, I'm looking for some "real talk" with names of both good and bad programs in my state. I've spent the past few years learning all I can in the ICU to build a solid foundation on which to hopefully build a solid career as a future CRNA. It goes without saying that I want to be a part of a program that challenges and molds me to be a confident and as much of an autonomous provider as the field allows. Thank you and I appreciate any and all input!

1 hour ago, Tegridy said:


libel means untrue. If it’s true by all means spread the word. University is not the ring headed angel people make it out to be. They need to be under the radar also.

That is the legal definition. The common one does not state that it must be an untruth. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel

Of course the forum rules do not place emphasis leaving room for uncertainty.

1 hour ago, Tegridy said:

I think people are confused with slander and truthful reviews. I can’t go out and say jiff peanut butter is full of cat turds and dog dookie but if Something bad was wrong with it and I’m truthful with evidence one can state what’s wrong. No one is talking about slandering a school. But if somewhere has weak curriculum, poor pass rates, and abusive instructors one should mention it.

libel means untrue. If it’s true by all means spread the word. University is not the ring headed angel people make it out to be. They need to be under the radar also.

It says later in the terms of service “No potentially libelous information about specific schools, instructors, or health care facilities/entities should be posted in these forums.”

most negative things said about schools are “potentially libelous.” And good luck finding a student that wants to hurt their own school’s reputation unless they were kicked out.

Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
11 minutes ago, Phish16 said:

It says later in the terms of service “No potentially libelous information about specific schools, instructors, or health care facilities/entities should be posted in these forums.”

most negative things said about schools are “potentially libelous.” And good luck finding a student that wants to hurt their own school’s reputation unless they were kicked out.

Just have to have data to back it up. If these forums are more strict then people should post it on reddit or something or a rate your school website. I think this forum is more strict since 1. They are funded by advertisements and 2. The forum got chased down by some school in the past, I can’t remember it’s name though. They do have some school specific forums on here and if one has negative aspects to talk about then they are free to as long as it’s true. I know it’s 2020 and we are only allowed to say “good things” but letting university run amok is silly.

I mean if you don’t want to state negatives then don’t. The rest of us will as we see fit.

I agree that it is important to bring to light the wrong doings of the bad schools. I would be cautious about what you choose to say if you wish to go that route. A court may be the entity that decides what is "truth" and what is not in such a case.

The forum rules state that there is no freedom of speech here and for good cause. Even if a school that is mentioned in an unfavorable light ,and rightly so, decided to drag everyone to court on such an issue it would be detrimental.

Once again, I would just choose your words wisely when speaking negatively about such an entity. I would PM someone if I had a bunch of negative stuff to say about a school that I felt they needed to know. Just my 2 cents.

Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
4 minutes ago, juniper222 said:

I agree that it is important to bring to light the wrong doings of the bad schools. I would be cautious about what you choose to say if you wish to go that route. A court may be the entity that decides what is "truth" and what is not in such a case.

The forum rules state that there is no freedom of speech here and for good cause. Even if a school that is mentioned in an unfavorable light ,and rightly so, decided to drag everyone to court on such an issue it would be detrimental.

Once again, I would just choose your words wisely when speaking negatively about such an entity. I would PM someone if I had a bunch of negative stuff to say about a school that I felt they needed to know. Just my 2 cents.

It’s pretty hard to bring someone to court for a bad review. Otherwise everyone who complains on yelp about XYZ business would be in court LOL.

I don’t think all nurses can release who we are on the forum unless there are threats of violence anyway

A few years ago some educational program attempted to find out the true identies of allnurses posters for what I believe was a lawsuit due to some information about the program that was posted on this site. They were some of my favorite contributors too. For anyone who does post about a specific school, very careful about how things are phrased.

10 minutes ago, Tegridy said:

It’s pretty hard to bring someone to court for a bad review. Otherwise everyone who complains on yelp about XYZ business would be in court LOL.

I don’t think all nurses can release who we are on the forum unless there are threats of violence anyway

The school in question would take AllNurses to court. You can do anything you wish to, that's on you. I was just bringing up my interpretation of the forum rules in case anyone didn't know about this. Then again if there is doubt one can always PM one of the admin for clarification.

I just don't want anyone to get into trouble.

Specializes in Dialysis.
3 hours ago, Tegridy said:

I think people are confused with slander and truthful reviews. I can’t go out and say jiff peanut butter is full of cat turds and dog dookie but if Something bad was wrong with it and I’m truthful with evidence one can state what’s wrong. No one is talking about slandering a school. But if somewhere has weak curriculum, poor pass rates, and abusive instructors one should mention it.

libel means untrue. If it’s true by all means spread the word. University is not the ring headed angel people make it out to be. They need to be under the radar also.

AllNurses has had issues with negative school reviews before. Posts have been taken down. So it's known to be a no-no. If you have knowledge, good or bad, just PM it to the person

I'm just here to learn something.

Specializes in anesthesiology.

There is one school in FL that had a lawsuit brought up against it, did not have all their appropriate accreditation at one time, and has recently changed owners. I would avoid that one. Otherwise, I don't think you're really going to come across a real "CRNA mill" like you would for NPs. Like someone else said, some of the highest regarded schools are found outside of FL. You would get better information through one of the CRNA/SRNA fb pages by the way.

Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.

Yah best bet just look on website for pass rates and all required disclosures and ask other students on interview days. If you don’t get to talk to current students on interview days that’s a red flag.

Specializes in CRNA.

Be careful relying too much on pass rates without knowing how students are treated. Look at policies that allow students to complete the curriculum but discharge students at the end due to scoring below national average on the SEE. That’s how a bad program can have a good pass rate. Very abusive to students.

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