While perusing these forums over the years, I've seen mention of "CRNA mills" or "puppy mills" in regard to low quality CRNA programs either pumping out students with the bare minimum qualifications (cases, etc) or simply failing students out after they've already paid a great deal of money. For example, this post (though a few years old), mentions the states of Florida and Texas as being contributors to hosting these "CRNA mill" programs.
So, does anybody have any insight into exactly which specific programs these are? I've noticed a common theme on this forum in regard to people not mentioning the name of their program whether good or bad which, I think is a disservice to both a good program (should someone want to apply there), and to prospective students who might be looking at a bad program who could otherwise be saved the time, effort and money if students and/or CRNAs of such programs could simply state "Yes, I attend[ed] CRNA program XYZ and it's not good because..."
For what it's worth, I live in Florida and am mainly looking at programs here. One can only deduce so much information from visiting a program's website so, I'm looking for some "real talk" with names of both good and bad programs in my state. I've spent the past few years learning all I can in the ICU to build a solid foundation on which to hopefully build a solid career as a future CRNA. It goes without saying that I want to be a part of a program that challenges and molds me to be a confident and as much of an autonomous provider as the field allows. Thank you and I appreciate any and all input!
I'd also ask about MDA oversight. I've read posts from people (prominent ones in the CRNA community) that said because of their program and the clinical sites, they graduated *without ever pushing their own induction agents*. So ask programs, at their sites, do you push your own meds?
If you pick a school that is heavily MDA directed, this could be you. I can't imagine graduating, not having pushed my own meds. This also means they weren't exposed to CRNA independent practice sites, which is also a great thing to see/rotate through. This is also something to avoid and be aware of.
Be careful relying too much on pass rates without knowing how students are treated. Look at policies that allow students to complete the curriculum but discharge students at the end due to scoring below national average on the SEE. That’s how a bad program can have a good pass rate. Very abusive to students.
Good info. It’s great to read the student handbooks before deciding on a school and also finding out if they have the right to change the student handbook once you’re in the program.
Lazy people come out of all programs. No need to disparage a school that has smaller classes to make a mill look better. I really don't care where the lazy people went to school; just want them to go away.
What is the big deal? It’s not difficult to push indiction drugs anyway. There’s not much skill to do such a thing. I’ve pushed my drugs, the CRNA has pushed drugs for me, and the MD has pushed drugs for me. It’s not a big deal at all
Well that's for sure, but if you're not pushing the drugs yourself do you give the MD an order on dosages? I don't want someone else pushing a drug dose not in my plan. Nor do I want surgeons watching someone else giving drugs. I had some moron give a stick of Norcuron instead a stick of Sux for a 5 minute case. Never again. I was in a new site where an MD wasnt used to keeping his hands to himself and I didn't think I would have to keep the drugs in my own hand like I always did. My bad.
I've asked an MD to push drugs where I work because the patient was difficult to mask. It's not that big of a deal. If an MD REALLY wanted to push my drugs I wouldn't care. I know how to push drugs.
What IS a big deal is some places limiting CRNAs by not allowing them to push induction drugs. At one of my rotations that was heavily MD ran, me and the CRNA waited 45 minutes for an MD who was stuck in a difficult airway to come in the room to push drugs because the CRNA wasn't allowed to without her in the room per hospital policy. It was a simple case too, which was very different than what I was used to at my primary clinical site. No thank you.
At one of my rotations that was heavily MD ran, me and the CRNA waited 45 minutes for an MD who was stuck in a difficult airway to come in the room to push drugs because the CRNA wasn't allowed to without her in the room per hospital policy.
This is more along the lines of what I meant. Some schools operate with clinical sites where this is the norm. MDs push the drugs, and decide how much/what to give of each.
This is more along the lines of what I meant. Some schools operate with clinical sites where this is the norm. MDs push the drugs, and decide how much/what to give of each.
This was my school. Some of our sites were not like this and I HATED the ones that were. The culture was extremely different in the places where you had to wait for the MD no matter what the case was. It wasn't just about pushing drugs, it was the disrespectful culture of treating us like incompetent assistants. Majority of people who worked there graduated from said school and never "knew any better", they had a real hard time recruiting from outside of the school b/c the culture was anything but collegial to anyone who wanted to see.
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DreameRN, BSN
120 Posts
I'd also ask about MDA oversight. I've read posts from people (prominent ones in the CRNA community) that said because of their program and the clinical sites, they graduated *without ever pushing their own induction agents*. So ask programs, at their sites, do you push your own meds?
If you pick a school that is heavily MDA directed, this could be you. I can't imagine graduating, not having pushed my own meds. This also means they weren't exposed to CRNA independent practice sites, which is also a great thing to see/rotate through. This is also something to avoid and be aware of.