Covid Vaccine

SansNom · Dec 21, 2020

On 12/20/2020 at 1:33 AM, Jack Peace said:

Muno, you seem like a smart guy so I will try to explain this so you can finally understand it. Take 2018 for example. The total deaths from all causes in the U.S. was notably higher than the year before and after . When examining the data of 2018, ALL major causes of death were increased compared to the year before and after. But in 2020, with the total deaths being slightly elevated from 2019, you would expect all causes to be elevated as well. But instead, all causes of death for 2020 are markedly decreased including influenza and pneumonia while Covid is the only cause that increased from the previous year.

I thought you were just trolling, but I think you're just not very good at deciphering information and statistics. Also, yet again, you're failing to mention any sources. Your last post seems to have gotten information from a facebook meme. Here's a bit of an explanation.....

https://usafacts.org/articles/preliminary-us-death-statistics-more-deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 21, 2020

7 hours ago, MunoRN said:

The rate of severe adverse effects in the clinical trial group was not significantly different from the placebo group (0.6% vs 0.5%).

It's a given that there were will be some severe reactions. Of course these are the one's that are making the headlines. A nurse friend of mine sent me an article of a severe reaction of someone in England and said "see! This is why I'm not taking it". Never mind 10's of thousands of people have taken it with minimal effect but that doesn't make for good click bait.

Disclaimer: is that I respect anyone's decision to not take the vaccine. This should be honored.

Jack Peace · Dec 23, 2020

On 12/20/2020 at 1:23 PM, ozoneranger said:

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf

Keep in mind that this is only the first dose and Moderna's vaccine had a higher rate of AE's in its trials.

As of Dec 18, the CDC was aware of 3,150 health impact events from the Pfizer vaccine out of 112,817 doses that had been administered.

A health impact event is defined as an event where the individual is unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, or requires care from doctor or health care professional.

That is a rate of 1 in 35.

Additionally, the CDC was aware of 6 anaphylactic responses.

In case you weren't aware, there's usually 2 or 3 people on here that will bully you and try to discredit you after every post. They work for the pharmaceutical corporations so don't worry about them. 1 in 35 is a scary rate. Extraordinarily high .

toomuchbaloney · Dec 23, 2020

5 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

In case you weren't aware, there's usually 2 or 3 people on here that will bully you and try to discredit you after every post. They work for the pharmaceutical corporations so don't worry about them. 1 in 35 is a scary rate. Extraordinarily high .

Which of us do you suspect work for the pharmaceutical companies? Generally speaking, people discredit themselves in these threads.

Cowboyardee · Dec 23, 2020

On 12/21/2020 at 1:07 AM, MunoRN said:

The orange line represents the threshold for excess deaths; the predicted number of deaths plus room for variability and range of error. The blue portions of graph are Covid deaths. If deaths due to Covid are not being undercounted, then the non-Covid deaths in green should not exceed the excess death threshold. But since the non-Covid deaths do exceed the threshold that would suggest some portion of the non-covid excess deaths are due to Covid.

I have an alternative (but equally unsettling) explanation for the rise in non-covid excess deaths above the threshold: covid has overwhelmed hospital infrastructure to the point that we are seeing higher mortality rates from non-covid conditions due to ineffective care, under-triage, inadequate medical and personnel resources, etc. Basically failure to rescue on a mass scale.

As a hospital wide STAT and code blue responder, I see it happening as the covid cases pile up, and many patients that would normally come to critical care for closer monitoring are left in telemetry beds.

Of course, the truth is that we probably have both things happening simultaneously. We are doing worse with normal medical care due to the systemic stress of covid AND we are undercounting covid deaths given the lack of available testing and the relative low sensitivity of our tests.

SansNom · Dec 23, 2020

16 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

In case you weren't aware, there's usually 2 or 3 people on here that will bully you and try to discredit you after every post. They work for the pharmaceutical corporations so don't worry about them. 1 in 35 is a scary rate. Extraordinarily high .

Jack, in case you weren't aware, the poster you quoted actually included a source for their info, not spouting misunderstood statistics and quoting what seem to be FB memes. I haven't checked their post and references out yet, but at least they included them.

Demanding a valid argument backed up by sources and calling you out when you try to slide it by is not bullying. Think about it.

SansNom · Dec 24, 2020

On 12/20/2020 at 1:23 PM, ozoneranger said:

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf

Keep in mind that this is only the first dose and Moderna's vaccine had a higher rate of AE's in its trials.

As of Dec 18, the CDC was aware of 3,150 health impact events from the Pfizer vaccine out of 112,817 doses that had been administered.

A health impact event is defined as an event where the individual is unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, or requires care from doctor or health care professional.

That is a rate of 1 in 35.

Additionally, the CDC was aware of 6 anaphylactic responses.

This is definitely a concerning statistic.

My only question regarding this V-safe source in your link is that it's a "smartphone-based tool that uses text messaging and web surveys to provide personalized health check-ins after you receive a COVID-19 vaccination" (https://www.CDC.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vsafe.html). From what I can tell, the data it collects is based on people receiving the vaccine and then bothering to register and set up an account.

When I got my vaccine, I was never told about V-safe, and so I definitely didn't register for it and I doubt anyone else in my facilities did either. I'm guessing my facilities are not the only ones nationwide who weren't pushing this system, and even if they did of course everyone's not going to bother participating. I've never heard of it until I started looking into your link, and I suspect that the majority of people getting the vaccine are not registering and reporting their vaccine experience. Could also explain why the last data is from 5 days ago........

So it just makes me wonder how reliable it is as an accurate reflection of the whole. Was anyone else reading this who got the vaccine told about V-safe?

MunoRN, RN · Dec 24, 2020

14 hours ago, Cowboyardee said:

I have an alternative (but equally unsettling) explanation for the rise in non-covid excess deaths above the threshold: covid has overwhelmed hospital infrastructure to the point that we are seeing higher mortality rates from non-covid conditions due to ineffective care, under-triage, inadequate medical and personnel resources, etc. Basically failure to rescue on a mass scale.

As a hospital wide STAT and code blue responder, I see it happening as the covid cases pile up, and many patients that would normally come to critical care for closer monitoring are left in telemetry beds.

Of course, the truth is that we probably have both things happening simultaneously. We are doing worse with normal medical care due to the systemic stress of covid AND we are undercounting covid deaths given the lack of available testing and the relative low sensitivity of our tests.

An impaired ability to properly care for non-Covid patients due to the demands placed on hospitals is most definitely part of the cause of excess mortality over the past 9 months.

It's one thing when 'rationing' of care is just hypothetical, but to have patients who we've determined are going to take up too many resources that could be used for more benefit in other patients is when you realize just how increasing number of Covid patients doesn't create a linear increase in harm to other patients, it's exponential.

This is all the more reason to mitigate the spread of Covid.

MunoRN, RN · Dec 24, 2020

5 hours ago, SansNom said:

This is definitely a concerning statistic.

My only question regarding this V-safe source in your link is that it's a "smartphone-based tool that uses text messaging and web surveys to provide personalized health check-ins after you receive a COVID-19 vaccination" (https://www.CDC.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vsafe.html). From what I can tell, the data it collects is based on people receiving the vaccine and then bothering to register and set up an account.

When I got my vaccine, I was never told about V-safe, and so I definitely didn't register for it and I doubt anyone else in my facilities did either. I'm guessing my facilities are not the only ones nationwide who weren't pushing this system, and even if they did of course everyone's not going to bother participating. I've never heard of it until I started looking into your link, and I suspect that the majority of people getting the vaccine are not registering and reporting their vaccine experience. Could also explain why the last data is from 5 days ago........

So it just makes me wonder how reliable it is as an accurate reflection of the whole. Was anyone else reading this who got the vaccine told about V-safe?

21 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

In case you weren't aware, there's usually 2 or 3 people on here that will bully you and try to discredit you after every post. They work for the pharmaceutical corporations so don't worry about them. 1 in 35 is a scary rate. Extraordinarily high .

V-safe is a phone app that they offer when you get the vaccine. The CDC uses the app to track side effects from the vaccine. You get a message, which so far has been daily, asking about any symptoms. One of the questions in whether or not you've had any symptoms that would prevent you from working.

Since most of those who have gotten the vaccine so far are healthcare workers and aren't allowed to work with even mild symptoms, all it takes are the expected symptoms of the intended immune response to trigger a 'yes' answer to that question.

SansNom · Dec 24, 2020

6 hours ago, MunoRN said:

V-safe is a phone app that they offer when you get the vaccine. The CDC uses the app to track side effects from the vaccine. You get a message, which so far has been daily, asking about any symptoms. One of the questions in whether or not you've had any symptoms that would prevent you from working.

Since most of those who have gotten the vaccine so far are healthcare workers and aren't allowed to work with even mild symptoms, all it takes are the expected symptoms of the intended immune response to trigger a 'yes' answer to that question.

Good point, but also don't you have to actually register for it? I haven't gotten any text about v-safe. It would seem that if this were something they were relying much on then it would have more current data than from December 18.

MunoRN, RN · Dec 24, 2020

8 hours ago, SansNom said:

Good point, but also don't you have to actually register for it? I haven't gotten any text about v-safe. It would seem that if this were something they were relying much on then it would have more current data than from December 18.

Along with the CDC immunization card you should have gotten a separate flyer from the CDC about V-safe. It has a QR code you can scan with your phone, or go to the website and register. You don't have to sign up for it, but if you do it you can report symptoms through the app and it sends you reminders, which I'm sure many people ignore even if they went through the trouble of signing up for the app.

The fact that many of the expected symptoms of the vaccine (signs of a successful immune response) are also those that keep you from working due to employee Covid screening seems to be something hospitals are anticipating. Our system starts by scheduling your second dose first, since that's the one most likely to cause symptoms (almost guaranteed). They schedule it at the beginning of scheduled time off / the end of a stretch on, and then schedule the first dose 21 days prior to that even if you're scheduled to work, and expect that will mean some people will won't be able to work after the first dose due to Covid-suspicious symptoms.

SansNom · Dec 27, 2020

On 12/24/2020 at 2:46 PM, MunoRN said:

Along with the CDC immunization card you should have gotten a separate flyer from the CDC about V-safe. It has a QR code you can scan with your phone, or go to the website and register. You don't have to sign up for it, but if you do it you can report symptoms through the app and it sends you reminders, which I'm sure many people ignore even if they went through the trouble of signing up for the app.

Yeah, I didn't get anything at all of that nature, and I'm assuming none of my coworkers did either.