Covid Vaccine

[Nurseybl06]

I’m sure you all know about the COVID vaccine and the plan to first vaccinate healthcare workers. How does everyone feel about this vaccine ? I personally do not want it..Where are the long term studies. IDK it’s worrisome to me that it will prob be mandated for us 

[Jack Peace]

Can you not read? I said the total deaths are higher this year. But when total increased  deaths are not accompanied by increases of all causes of death , then that is a problem. 

Put simply, most of the deaths reported as Covid are actually due to heart disease, diabetes, cancer, COPD, etc. It's not difficult to understand. Hospitals and doctors are being given directive to report these deaths as Covid deaths regardless of resp symptoms. A Colorado county recently was reported to have reported 60% of their Covid deaths were actually gunshot wound victims. 

[Jack Peace]

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The data doesn't support your claim.  You have offered no proof, only your opinion. It really gets tiresome, debunking the nonsense that is spread about this pandemic.  

What did I say is incorrect?  You tell me where I am mistaken. People don't die? 

[toomuchbaloney]

59 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

What did I say is incorrect?  You tell me where I am mistaken. People don't die? 

LOL

You've offered nothing but nonsense that is contradictory to the available facts. Your unsupported opinions about the death rate of covid are incorrect.  Who is directing doctors to falsify medical records? 

[londonflo]

12 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

Hospitals and doctors are being given directive to report these deaths as Covid deaths regardless of resp symptoms.

Closer reading would have shown you:

Quote

Colorado provides death data related to COVID-19 in two ways:

Deaths due to COVID-19:

This is based on CDC coding of death certificates where COVID-19 is listed as the cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death.

Deaths among COVID-19 cases:

This reflects people who died with COVID-19, but COVID-19 may not have been the cause of death listed on the death certificate.

 

They are being told to record these deaths as someone dying with covid  (diagnosed within last 30 days) versus from covid. An important distinction. These directions come from the CDC who is reponsible for collecting such statistics. We do NOT know what data may be important in the future. Early statistics collected at the beginnings of HIV diagnosis (when it was called GRID) proved to be available at a later stage. 

What is your point again? 

[londonflo]

16 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

A Colorado county recently was reported to have reported 60% of their Covid deaths were actually gunshot wound victims. 

The more accurate statement is:

Quote

"The coroner, Brenda Bock, says two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds,"

 

[MunoRN, RN]

36 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

Can you not read? I said the total deaths are higher this year. But when total increased  deaths are not accompanied by increases of all causes of death , then that is a problem. 

What are you suggesting is the "problem" with the data that would suggest Covid-19 is not responsible for as many deaths as we think?

36 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

Put simply, most of the deaths reported as Covid are actually due to heart disease, diabetes, cancer, COPD, etc. It's not difficult to understand. Hospitals and doctors are being given directive to report these deaths as Covid deaths regardless of resp symptoms. 

 

Actually, all deaths reported as Covid-19 are due to other causes if you want to look at it that way.  Covid-19, just like other viruses such as HIV and influenza, doesn't kill directly, it causes life threatening conditions or exacerbates existing ones to cause death.  Most commonly, it causes death via hypoxic respiratory failure by triggering ARDS, although it also directly causes cardiogengic shock through cardiac myocite suppression, ischemic heart attacks and stroke through ACE-2 modulation that causes acute embolic events, acute kidney injury, etc.  

Suggesting Covid-19 doesn't cause death through those mechanisms is like saying gunshot wounds don't kill people since deaths due to gunshot wounds were actually people who died of massive blood loss, or traumatic brain injury, etc.

44 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

Can you not read? I said the total deaths are higher this year. But when total increased  deaths are not accompanied by increases of all causes of death , then that is a problem. 

Put simply, most of the deaths reported as Covid are actually due to heart disease, diabetes, cancer, COPD, etc. It's not difficult to understand. Hospitals and doctors are being given directive to report these deaths as Covid deaths regardless of resp symptoms. A Colorado county recently was reported to have reported 60% of their Covid deaths were actually gunshot wound victims. 

Colorado tracks both deaths caused by Covid-19 and deaths of those who have Covid-19, the gunshot victims were not reported as deaths caused by Covid-19, they were reported as Covid positive people who died of other causes.

Grand County Coroner: Colorado Should Improve Classification Of COVID Deaths – CBS Denver (cbslocal.com)

[Jack Peace]

Muno, you seem like a smart guy so I will try to explain this so you can finally understand it. Take 2018 for example. The total deaths from all causes in the U.S. was notably higher than the year before and after . When examining the data of 2018, ALL major causes of death were increased compared to the year before and after. But in 2020, with the total deaths being slightly elevated from 2019, you would expect all causes to be elevated as well. But instead, all causes of death for 2020 are markedly decreased including influenza and pneumonia while Covid is the only cause that increased from the previous year. 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

It stands to reason with people taking covid precautions that deaths from the flu and pneumonia would be lower this year.  I expected that and even speculated months ago that this might be the case, so I'm glad to read above I've been validated.

A guy on my bowling team lost both of his in-laws on the same day on Friday.  They both were covid positive and ventilated and died.  They were in their 70's living alone and enjoying life.  They did have heart disease but to say they died of their heart disease doesn't ring true with me.

Regardless of the death rates, looking at places like California and the Midwest and El Paso struggling in hospitals with capacity, nursing support, doctors and nurses practically on their hands and knees sounding alarms, it's not just the death rate that I feel needs to be focused on.  The death rate is mercifully low, but that's only part of the equation.

At the end of the day I have to trust the process and just take a leap of faith.  I got the vaccine on Friday.  I made that decision for myself based on what I see, what I've read, and how I feel wanting desperately for this all to end.

I can only make decisions for myself and accept that others come to different conclusions as long as it isn't something like "they are microchipping you".  Only three people on my unit other than the manager chose to be vaccinated and they have their reasons.   I will keep my mouth shut.

[ozoneranger]

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf

 

Keep in mind that this is only the first dose and Moderna's vaccine had a higher rate of AE's in its trials.

As of Dec 18, the CDC was aware of 3,150 health impact events from the Pfizer vaccine out of 112,817 doses that had been administered.

A health impact event is defined as an event where the individual is unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, or requires care from doctor or health care professional.

That is a rate of 1 in 35.

Additionally, the CDC was aware of 6 anaphylactic responses.

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, ozoneranger said:

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf

 

Keep in mind that this is only the first dose and Moderna's vaccine had a higher rate of AE's in its trials.

As of Dec 18, the CDC was aware of 3,150 health impact events from the Pfizer vaccine out of 112,817 doses that had been administered.

A health impact event is defined as an event where the individual is unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, or requires care from doctor or health care professional.

That is a rate of 1 in 35.

Additionally, the CDC was aware of 6 anaphylactic responses.

I had a quick look at your post history and this isn’t the first time you’ve tried to scare people regarding vaccines. 
 

The rate of 1 in 35 (or rather 3,150/112,807) translates to approximately 2.8%.

Looking at the trial data you will see that in the age group 18-55; 3.7% got a fever after the first dose. 47.4% reported fatigue, 41.9% reported a headache, 14.0% chills, vomiting 1.2%, diarrhea 11.1%, new or worsened muscle pain 21.3%, new or worsened joint pain 11.0%. For the age group >55 the corresponding numbers were slightly lower: 1.4%, 34.1%, 25.2%, 6.3%, 0.5%, 8.2%, 13.9% and 8.6%. 

I’ll include a link so that you can check that I managed to get the numbers right (you should go to the official source and not trust my numbers. I am one really tired nurse).  and also find out the percentages for mild, moderate and severe reactions for all the adverse events I listed.

---

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

I don’t know if you ever take vaccines but I do. And when I can I try to schedule them right before I have a couple of days of from work. I usually feel a bit crummy for a day or two as my immune system does its thing. And there have definitely been a few times when I would not have felt I was in great shape to go to work. But these reactions are only for a short period of time and I consider them normal considering what a vaccine is trying to make my body do. I have no idea why you appear to get all excited about 2.8% of recipients having more than a mild reaction. I’d be more concerned if no one did, because then I’d suspect a homeopathic vaccine ?

Unless you have some information that the 3,150 are reactions of a more serious and lasting variety, I honestly don’t see what all the hoopla is about. 

This is a new vaccine and of course it’s important to track adverse events but as far as I can tell with the information available to me at this point in time, I see no reason to fear this vaccine.

[MunoRN, RN]

10 hours ago, ozoneranger said:

https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf

 

Keep in mind that this is only the first dose and Moderna's vaccine had a higher rate of AE's in its trials.

As of Dec 18, the CDC was aware of 3,150 health impact events from the Pfizer vaccine out of 112,817 doses that had been administered.

A health impact event is defined as an event where the individual is unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, or requires care from doctor or health care professional.

That is a rate of 1 in 35.

Additionally, the CDC was aware of 6 anaphylactic responses.

That's actually surprisingly low since the expected symptoms resulting from a vaccine (fatigue, chills, headace, etc) all would prevent someone from being allowed to work based on commonly used workplace screening protocols.  

If you're suggesting that this shows there is a high rate of severe adverse effects from the Pfizer vaccine then this doesn't appear to be evidence of that.  

The rate of severe adverse effects in the clinical trial group was not significantly different from the placebo group (0.6% vs 0.5%).

[MunoRN, RN]

22 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

Muno, you seem like a smart guy so I will try to explain this so you can finally understand it. Take 2018 for example. The total deaths from all causes in the U.S. was notably higher than the year before and after . When examining the data of 2018, ALL major causes of death were increased compared to the year before and after. But in 2020, with the total deaths being slightly elevated from 2019, you would expect all causes to be elevated as well. But instead, all causes of death for 2020 are markedly decreased including influenza and pneumonia while Covid is the only cause that increased from the previous year. 

The orange line represents the threshold for excess deaths; the predicted number of deaths plus room for variability and range of error.  The blue portions of graph are Covid deaths.  If deaths due to Covid are not being undercounted, then the non-Covid deaths in green should not exceed the excess death threshold.  But since the non-Covid deaths do exceed the threshold that would suggest some portion of the non-covid excess deaths are due to Covid.