Coronavirus Second Wave?

[sirI]

Quote

The new coronavirus outbreak in Beijing grew to 106 cases Tuesday, with 29 communities in the sprawling Chinese capital back on lockdown.

Yet again, a coronavirus outbreak in China is linked to a food market ...

This coronavirus resurgence and reaction is worryingly reminiscent of the unprecedented lockdown of Wuhan and the surrounding regions in central China that began in January.

Quote

Beyond Beijing, this new surge is not Asia's only flare-up: Japan's capital city of Tokyo has reported more than 20 new cases havens here day over the past six days.

The surges in two of Asia's biggest capitals serve as a clear warning to America and all other countries: reopening risks reinfection.

Read in its entirety: China races to contain a second wave of coronavirus cases in Beijing

Do you think this will become increasingly problematic?

With the re-opening of the U.S., are we facing a second wave?

[toomuchbaloney]

6 minutes ago, juniper222 said:

Agreed, however, if natural herd immunity does not work, no vaccine will work. Not a nice scenario to ponder.

That's not an apples to apples comparison really. Hopefully no one expects 1% of vaccine recipients to die as we try to fully immunize the population. We don't really know yet if we humans can develop a meaningful immunity. The virus seems to really disrupt several pieces of that very interesting bit of our self preservation system.

[A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN]

10 hours ago, GrumpyRN said:

Is that the same flu that killed 50 million people in 1918?

Which by the way started in Kansas.

They had lengthy mass quarantines of the populace back then for that one. It didn't work. Human beings aren't lab rats, where economics is a moot issue and food magically shows up for everyone involved. In the real world, permanent quarantine is impossible.

[adventure_rn, MSN, NP]

21 hours ago, Emergent said:

I think the virus is here to stay. We, in the first world, have gotten used to such a high standard a care that it shocks us to see vulnerable people taken out by a virus.

I don't think it's strictly a 'vulnerable population' problem, but also a high-population-density problem (hence super-spreading events in food markets, and the resurgence in Tokyo and Beijing).

The problem with fully lifting covid restrictions is that the parts of America with the greatest economic centers (NYC, SF) are also the most-densely populated. If we just say, "to heck with prevention measures," those cities will be hit the hardest.

Yes, the fact that big cities are economic centers means that shutting them down hurts the economy tremendously. The flip side is that by letting the disease run rampant in major cities, we don't know to what extent it will affect those cities, and consequently their economies/production. If NYC and SF are decimated by the disease, that probably won't be good for the US economy either, right?

I fully agree that it would be impossible to shut down until there's a vaccine (is anybody even arguing in favor of that?), but surely there's a compromise between strict lock-down and a total free-for-all.

Meanwhile, I'm seriously ticked off at the bleak Federal Reserve outlook report--just as the market was rebounding, they all but announced that people should pull their money out of the market, SMH. ?

[A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN]

No more compromises. These sacrifices are all in vain. The Coronavirus won't be defeated because a new wave would simply restart. Everyone is sick and tired of hearing about the Corona day in and day out. Time to move on with our lives!

[GrumpyRN, NP]

7 hours ago, A Hit With The Ladies said:

They had lengthy mass quarantines of the populace back then for that one. It didn't work. Human beings aren't lab rats, where economics is a moot issue and food magically shows up for everyone involved. In the real world, permanent quarantine is impossible.

Two things;

1) It was during a world war, very difficult to quarantine or social distance in trenches.

2) It did work. "Social distancing isn’t a new idea—it saved thousands of American lives during the last great pandemic. Here's how it worked."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

[GrumpyRN, NP]

1 hour ago, A Hit With The Ladies said:

No more compromises. These sacrifices are all in vain. The Coronavirus won't be defeated because a new wave would simply restart. Everyone is sick and tired of hearing about the Corona day in and day out. Time to move on with our lives!

OK, so as we know this virus is more dangerous for older people, males and BAME people. So the question is, are you willing to look your parents in the eye and say to them, "Sorry but my haircut is more important than your life." THAT is what it boils down to.

[A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN]

26 minutes ago, GrumpyRN said:

Two things;

1) It was during a world war, very difficult to quarantine or social distance in trenches.

2) It did work. "Social distancing isn’t a new idea—it saved thousands of American lives during the last great pandemic. Here's how it worked."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

There were no trenches on the U.S. mainland, and our country had social distancing back in the 1918 pandemic. It failed. 500,000 to 800,000 Americans died (out of a population of 105 million).

Since the U.S. has roughly 330 million people today (a factor of x3.14), that would mean that an equivalent number of 1,571,000 to 2,514,000 Coronavirus deaths in the U.S. could be termed a success.

And BTW, my parents are really cool and the most unselfish people I know. They don't endorse everyone being out of a job and us going back to the Stone Age, with no future for anyone, in order to vainly wait for an end to this Corona stuff.

[GrumpyRN, NP]

On 6/18/2020 at 9:32 AM, A Hit With The Ladies said:

2,514,000 Coronavirus deaths in the U.S. could be termed a success.

WHAT????? Have you seriously just condoned the death of 2 and a half million people as a success???

On 6/18/2020 at 9:32 AM, A Hit With The Ladies said:

And BTW, my parents are really cool and the most unselfish people I know. They don't endorse everyone being out of a job and us going back to the Stone Age, with no future for anyone, in order to vainly wait for an end to this Corona stuff.

Yes, but are YOU willing to look them in the eye and state that it is OK for them to die? What about your grandma?

I don't know how old you are but if you are/were in the at risk group are you willing to sacrifice yourself for the "greater good" as you see it?

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

Social Distancing in 1918?

Many medical historians say it's likely the virus launched itself onto the world from Haskell County, Kansas, and the United States Army helped move it along to become a worldwide killer.

In January and February 1918, according to the 2005 book "The Great Influenza," local physician Loring Miner found people in the sporificely populated county -- 1,720 people occupying 578 square miles - were coming down with a particularly violent strain of flu. Strong, healthy people died. Miner was so concerned that in March 1918 he let the U.S. Public Health Service know what he had seen and warned of a new type of flu.

The disease burned itself out in March. In the past, it might well have never gotten beyond Haskell County. But in 1918 America was at war and people were moving around the country more than ever...

... On March 4, 1918, the first influenza cases were identified at Camp Funston. Within three weeks, 1,100 of the 56,222 troops at the camp were sick. And because men were constantly moving among the Army's camps all across the country, the virus spread...

... In April 1918, influenza hit Brest, France, one of the major debarkation ports for American Soldiers who carried the flu with them to Europe...

... The disease also jumped behind enemy lines....

https://www.army.mil/article/210420/worldwide_flu_outbreak_killed_45000_american_soldiers_during_world_war_i

[GrumpyRN, NP]

I got a lot of information from a documentary from the BBC which was obviously a bit less American centered Herring but it agreed with the facts and numbers you quoted.

[A Hit With The Ladies, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, GrumpyRN said:

WHAT????? Have you seriously just condoned the death of 2 and a half million people as a success???

You're the one who said that social distancing saved thousands of lives during the Spanish flu.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

1 hour ago, GrumpyRN said:

I got a lot of information from a documentary from the BBC which was obviously a bit less American centered Herring but it agreed with the facts and numbers you quoted.

I'm glad we get some radio and TV news and documentaries by the BBC.