So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
Right after high school, I got a useless Bachelor's degree from a very fancy, expensive private liberal arts college in New England. A decade later, I decided to finally pursue nursing and I attended a two-year nursing program through my local CC.
Overall, I experienced that the classes at the CC were of the same quality as the classes at the fancy liberal arts college. I had some great professors at CC where I learned a ton, and some not-so-great ones where I felt I didn't learn much. That was the same at the liberal arts college.
Here were the only real differences between the two schools:
1. Price: CC cost $93.50/credit. Fancy Liberal Arts College cost $1600 per credit when you did the math and deducted what was paid for room & board, fees, etc.
2. Class size: CC had smaller classes with no more than 25, ever.
3. Convenience: CC offered many more sections of each class and was more flexible with days/times. I had an easier time getting the classes I needed for my major at CC than at Fancy Liberal Arts College.
4. Student body: Fancy Liberal Arts College only took students with top test scores in high school, making it a very homogeneous and often snobby, unfriendly environment. Pretty much anybody can enroll in CC, it was more diverse, I met a wider range of people, and they were nicer. Plus, having a class of all high test scorers doesn't make any difference in quality of the class, the material, or the professor.
While I do understand the push for a "well rounded education" and all, truth is: Those days are done. Education is becoming utilitarian in style. No more requiring courses like "History of French Cuisine" and such for people that have no use for it. The only good that comes out of it is that the school gets to collect for such classes.
For me, if you truly want to have a "well rounded education" focus, then put some thought into what is required for what. I completely agree with and understand statistics, computer programming and everything else. And I'm sure there are more classes that would fit nursing degrees better than French Cuisine. Want to really "teach" cultural sensitivity instead of just talk about it........require a certain level of a second language (plenty of need for nurses who know Spanish, Sign or w/e).
I think there is such a thing as "wasted" education. Nor because a certain class or specific field of study has no value, but because they don't have global value. "French Cuisine" for a nurse..........wasted education. Same class for.........a business major wanting to go into owning a restaurant.........not a waste. It just requires some thought being put into it by those who create the curriculum.
My BS (not BSN) required a year of a second language. Personally, I don't feel that a every class you take for a BS should directly apply to your future career. BS degrees aren't vocational degrees and in general aren't meant to apply directly to a specific career. The BSN is an exception to that. In the non nursing degree world, MS/MA would be where you specialize and BS/BA is where you get a broad education and certainly if you had an interest in taking a class about the history of French cooking, go right ahead. Nursing is a bit different but for those pursuing BSN degrees, I don't see a problem having some broad based education classes. Although I also don't view a degree in pottery (or various other subjects) as useless and even know someone who has a Masters in pottery. I think there is nothing wrong with learning for knowledge's sake. And yes knowledge won't pay the bills but nothing wrong with a little extra knowledge on the path to a career.
And of course this has drifted from the original topic, but community colleges are a vital component to our higher education system. They are cheaper and provide more flexibility for non-traditional students as well as providing education for traditional students. Many have agreements with colleges and universities and if they are accredited, many of their classes are considered equivalent to lower division classes at colleges and universities. And they provide various specialized degrees such as nursing.
I say do what is best for the person. Nothing wrong with attending community college but there is also nothing wrong with attending a 4 year as well.
While I do understand the push for a "well rounded education" and all, truth is: Those days are done. Education is becoming utilitarian in style. No more requiring courses like "History of French Cuisine" and such for people that have no use for it. The only good that comes out of it is that the school gets to collect for such classes.
For me, if you truly want to have a "well rounded education" focus, then put some thought into what is required for what. I completely agree with and understand statistics, computer programming and everything else. And I'm sure there are more classes that would fit nursing degrees better than French Cuisine. Want to really "teach" cultural sensitivity instead of just talk about it........require a certain level of a second language (plenty of need for nurses who know Spanish, Sign or w/e).
I think there is such a thing as "wasted" education. Nor because a certain class or specific field of study has no value, but because they don't have global value. "French Cuisine" for a nurse..........wasted education. Same class for.........a business major wanting to go into owning a restaurant.........not a waste. It just requires some thought being put into it by those who create the curriculum.
Electives are a chance to take things that you feel you want or need. A couple of my electives were religion and art classes, the art because I wanted to take it! And the religion I thought would help me understand other cultures. Believe it or not, I have had a lot of artistic patients and I think studying art helped me to relate to them. Not a waste, and I am glad I took it.
Even at the CC level you have to take some non-pertinent classes- I took golf and bowling for my PE classes. Why do you need PE in college? I don't know. In high school you take a lot of odd things too. It is just how the programs are set up to make you well rounded.
Most of the courses taken that are wasteful are electives that the person chose, not set up by the curriculum. If they want to waste their education studying French Cuisine, then that is their option. The wise student makes their electives useful, though sometimes class scheduling limits the availability of preferred classes.
I agree about the French Cuisine course. It was taken as an elective for a degree from Penn State in Institutional Management (including hospitals, hotels, and restaurants.) But it counts as an elective for nursing. So those days are not exactly 'gone'.
I would love to take a course on French cuisine. I would not want to pay $1600 a credit for the course, though.
ETA: I wish I would have had a better variety of electives available when I did my BSN. I always felt like I missed out on something by going the ADN route first. I got a great nursing education, but I wish I could have had a few courses that were not related to nursing. I would have loved to have taken a couple of art courses or a course on contemporary film.
Electives are a chance to take things that you feel you want or need. A couple of my electives were religion and art classes, the art because I wanted to take it! And the religion I thought would help me understand other cultures. Believe it or not, I have had a lot of artistic patients and I think studying art helped me to relate to them. Not a waste, and I am glad I took it.
Even at the CC level you have to take some non-pertinent classes- I took golf and bowling for my PE classes. Why do you need PE in college? I don't know. In high school you take a lot of odd things too. It is just how the programs are set up to make you well rounded.
Most of the courses taken that are wasteful are electives that the person chose, not set up by the curriculum. If they want to waste their education studying French Cuisine, then that is their option. The wise student makes their electives useful, though sometimes class scheduling limits the availability of preferred classes.
This is a really good post. I agree with you.
I took weight training for my PE class in my ADN program. I guess it WAS pretty relevant to nursing!
Going through a Community College RN ADN program and a RN to BSN program is costing me roughly $15,000. That is about $65,000 less than the BSN programs in my area. Sounds smart to me! :)
Going through a Community College RN ADN program and a RN to BSN program is costing me roughly $15,000. That is about $65,000 less than the BSN programs in my area. Sounds smart to me! :)
The smart way to go is the one that is applicable to one's given situation, but it is NOT a "one size fits all" solution.
Loved community college because tuition is less, smaller classes, professors/instructors do not have to publish and enjoy teaching, and the college was close to home. I transferred from the community college to a BSN program and never looked back. For those who paid top dollar for their 4 year university education, they may have a nice diploma to hang on the wall, but they are also repaying large student loans.
How many patient cares have you done since graduated from Community college?
Even though I just graduated from a 4-year BSN program (with a minor), I do at times look back and wish that I would have gone to a CC (only because I would now have about 2 years of experience under my belt, and I would have a nice hump of change in my bank account).
I had a full ride to college, so the debt was not an issue for me; however, I really felt like I wasted more time than anything (2 years worth of time taking bull**** gen-eds), which to me is much more precious. I also moved far away from friends, had no social life, and just... hated college. On top of that, I just realized a few weeks ago that the CC that I would have gone to has had like 95-100% pass rates since 2000, versus my 4-year program that has NEVER had a 100% pass rate (68-95%).
Can you believe that!?!?!?!?
So do I feel like poo? Yup... Can I change it??? No. Instead, I keep it moving...
I mean, yea, it's nice to be able to put the creds RN, BSN behind your name and all, but at the end of the day, that will be overshadowed by either CRNA or some sort of NP (hopefully WHNP) that I'll achieve in the future anyway, soooo yea...
And I will get paid slightly more for my BSN... but does that give me back the 2 yrs that I felt I wasted... Nope.
I have wondered about CC 2 year or university 4 year training in college before, I realize today that the 2 years between ADN and BSN schooling does make differences in the way you think and analyse the complexity of human disease process. 4 year schooling provides you a better preparation for complicated patient care, but 2 year CC training does not provide a solid analytical ground for critical thinking. you may not know at this time, but it does make difference in the way we look at things, analyse and respond. To do good on NCLEX , one only need to prepare for it like prepare for high school SAT.
I have wondered about CC 2 year or university 4 year training in college before, I realize today that the 2 years between ADN and BSN schooling does make differences in the way you think and analyse the complexity of human disease process. 4 year schooling provides you a better preparation for complicated patient care, but 2 year CC training does not provide a solid analytical ground for critical thinking. you may not know at this time, but it does make difference in the way we look at things, analyse and respond. To do good on NCLEX , one only need to prepare for it like prepare for high school SAT.
I'm going to have to call BS on this! The first 2 years of nursing school are all basic pre-recs so as a student you are in actual nursing classes for the same amount of time as every other type of nursing program. No nursing program provides a "solid analytical ground for critical thinking". Some people are inherent critical thinkers, others have to learn it and by and large most of that learning takes place on the job. New grad BSN's are no more capable of taking care of complicated patients than ADNs or Diploma nurses for that matter. BSN's do not understand disease processes any better and I highly doubt they think about it differently. We need to stop this ridiculous comparison crap.
If you don't have it you cannot comment because you don't know what you are missing.
Some aides think that they can do everything that a nurse does except IVs. An LPN often thinks they know as much as an RN. Everyone sees things from their own point of view. Many nurses think they can outdo Docs half the time. You need to walk in their shoes to know what they know. We see only a tiny portion of another's knowledge base- the outcome and the decision. We don't know what goes into the decision. Don't judge the additional education unless you have it.
I have been an aide, an ADN and a BSN. There most definitely is a difference, but just like any other job there are good nurses and bad nurses at every level. More education does not equate a better nurse, only a broader knowledge base. How that knowledge is used is up to the individual.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
33762FL
376 Posts
Right after high school, I got a useless Bachelor's degree from a very fancy, expensive private liberal arts college in New England. A decade later, I decided to finally pursue nursing and I attended a two-year nursing program through my local CC.
Overall, I experienced that the classes at the CC were of the same quality as the classes at the fancy liberal arts college. I had some great professors at CC where I learned a ton, and some not-so-great ones where I felt I didn't learn much. That was the same at the liberal arts college.
Here were the only real differences between the two schools:
1. Price: CC cost $93.50/credit. Fancy Liberal Arts College cost $1600 per credit when you did the math and deducted what was paid for room & board, fees, etc.
2. Class size: CC had smaller classes with no more than 25, ever.
3. Convenience: CC offered many more sections of each class and was more flexible with days/times. I had an easier time getting the classes I needed for my major at CC than at Fancy Liberal Arts College.
4. Student body: Fancy Liberal Arts College only took students with top test scores in high school, making it a very homogeneous and often snobby, unfriendly environment. Pretty much anybody can enroll in CC, it was more diverse, I met a wider range of people, and they were nicer. Plus, having a class of all high test scorers doesn't make any difference in quality of the class, the material, or the professor.