So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
I think those kind of people are just upset and jealous that they spent $40,000+ for the same thing that a community college student got for $5,000. It's just a way for colleges to rip people off, and also to make people feel like they are superior to someone else which is quite primitive, but unfortunately is still a reality at this point in evolution.
I'm going to have to call BS on this! The first 2 years of nursing school are all basic pre-recs so as a student you are in actual nursing classes for the same amount of time as every other type of nursing program. No nursing program provides a "solid analytical ground for critical thinking". Some people are inherent critical thinkers, others have to learn it and by and large most of that learning takes place on the job. New grad BSN's are no more capable of taking care of complicated patients than ADNs or Diploma nurses for that matter. BSN's do not understand disease processes any better and I highly doubt they think about it differently. We need to stop this ridiculous comparison crap.
I don't know any universities by me, and theres many, that have only 2 years of nursing classes. All of them have 3 years and 1 year of pre-nursing. Secondly, why is that anyone and everyone constantly feels they must go on and on why cc is soo much better then a 4 year degree? It makes me feel like if you have to always defend it maybe you are the ones that feel theres something wrong with it. I have went to my local cc and university and I never felt looked down upon at the cc but to be honest the only time I've ever felt bad about my education is when I read threads like this where everyone has to fiercely defend themselves against who? Who knows because you would never see a thread started where all the BSN nurses and students talked about how great they are.
BTW Yes, I am a BSN student and no I am not in debt at all, thank you F/A, and am done in exactly the same amount of time as the CC that I also had been accepted to. It's not a great idea to lump all BSN students and label them all the same just the same way you ask for people to not judge you!
Just some food for thought..... What about the professional image of nurses (RNs)? Most other professions require AT LEAST a bachelor's degree. In health care , many other professions require a master's degree (OT,PT,ST). Why would we not want to elevate the profession to be on par with these other groups?
Also, I notice a lot of ADN nurses enroll almost immediately in RN-BSN programs upon graduation. So, obviously you do understand the benefit of having a BSN.
I am not saying that ADN or diploma nurses are not equal to BSN nurses. I am still a student, so I have no basis for comparison.
But, given how much I hear about nurses feeling as though they are not treated as equals by other members of the health care team, wouldn't having a uniform entry-level standard for our profession make sense?
I chose the BSN route because I knew that it was the minimum education that I felt was necessary to start my career AND most efficiently reach my goals of higher education.
I do understand that some people feel they need to get out in the work force as soon as possible, but I don't think you save that much money in the long run doing an RN-BSN completion program later on.
Again, I am not trying to insult any group of RNs. It's just something to think about. Have a great day!
WOW! I wonder if this same argument is going on with doctors? Surgeons vs Family Practitioners; Neuro surgeons vs Orthopedic Surgeons, Cardiac Surgeons vs General Surgeons,etc.... I wonder if they ALL look down on nurses, even the Nurse Practitioners. I wonder if the President of the United States, past or present, looks down on doctors. I wonder if Supreme Court judges look down on attorneys.
All in all, it is a complete waste of time because the big man would not be big if there was no little man, even in nursing. Everybody wants to be chief; who are you gonna lead if their or no Indians? Just points to ponder. I was very happy as an LPN even though I never wanted to be a nurse. I returned for the RN simply because the economy forced me back into school with all of the frequent cancellations that were going on at my hospital and I'd been in nursing so long that I don't know how to do anything else. We all have choices and we go to the college that best suits our needs....point blank. No matter where you go for your nursing degree, we all have to sit for the exact same NCLEX. Some fail that exam even with the straight A's in top notch colleges. Some pass that exam even with the bare minimum of grades from a technical school. Big deal. We need nurses!!!! Your ID badge is not going to reflect where you got your education from or what your grades were. I, too, am a RN-BSN student, because once again, our hospital is on this cancellation kick and I hear the same thing that I heard back then as an LPN. Then, other jobs wanted an RN. Now they want BSN.....the more education you get, the more they want....that's never gonna change. We just need to be supportive in everyone, everywhere that chooses nurses because, if you watch the news, I feel the real battle is between these damn attorneys always advertising to sue any and everybody in the medical field and the more education that you have, the more degrees, that you have, the more pay that you have, makes you a prime target.
Wow sorry. Your profile says Diploma, not BSN or ADN.
That would be because my actual nursing education was diploma and I never felt the need to update it due to the fact that in order to get those three letters all I had to do was jump through a bunch of hoops and literally take a few extra classes that had absolutely no impact on my practice. Not saying I don't value education but I did not see any evidence that the BSN classes were any different in quality, thought process or philosophy than what I experienced in my diploma program. For people to make blanket statements that BSN prepared nurses are better able to take care of patients than any other type of program is total BS. It's divisive and does not serve any purpose but to make the writer feel superior and that is something we certainly don't need in an already difficult profession.
Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.
I don't know any universities by me, and there are many, that have only 2 years of nursing classes. All of them have 3 years and 1 year of pre-nursing. Secondly, why is that anyone and everyone constantly feels they must go on and on why cc is so much better then a 4 year degree? It makes me feel like if you have to always defend it maybe you are the ones that feel there's something wrong with it. I have went to my local cc and university and I never felt looked down upon at the cc but to be honest the only time I've ever felt bad about my education is when I read threads like this where everyone has to fiercely defend themselves against who? Who knows because you would never see a thread started where all the BSN nurses and students talked about how great they are.
BTW Yes, I am a BSN student and no I am not in debt at all, thank you F/A, and am done in exactly the same amount of time as the CC that I also had been accepted to. It's not a great idea to lump all BSN students and label them all the same just the same way you ask for people to not judge you!
Your program is not the only one set up that way, as I'm sure your aware. However, it seems the majority of BSN programs require 2 years of pre-reqs and then 2 years of nursing classes. I don't think it's fair to say that one nurse is better or worse than another based on their education level. Also how long in the CC program you also got into. I don't understand how a community college would take just as long as a BSN program, seeing as BSN program are typically 1.5 to 2 years longer than an ADN program. Unless you had a special circumstance, but that is hardly ever the norm. Unless there is a University that is offering an initial licensure, traditional (no previous BS/BA degree etc...) BSN in 2 years, which there could be.
I know that some schools have programs where you can finish certain degree majors in 3 years instead of 4 if you take the required course load, but I have never seen a nursing major in a BS in 3 program, not saying that there aren't any.
I am an ADN student and certainly realize that there are differences in nurses, but the differences are not because of their preparation level, but because of them individually. There are BSN prepared Nurses that are great and some that suck. There ADN/ Diploma nurses that are awesome and there are some that suck as well.
There are some people who have Degree in nursing both BSN degrees and ADN degrees and they never passed the NCLEX, so they are not nurses, despite having degrees and diplomas in nursing, they basically have a useless degree, unless they decide to use their classes to pursue another major or career.
Simply put the truth is...... You can get a BSN online by bridging, transferring credits, or using a previous degree, because there is no need for face to face training beyond what clinical and didactic training you needed to take the NCLEX. You can't get a Legit/ fully approved (by all states) ADN or Nursing Diploma (LPN or RN diploma) online, not counting Excelsior because they require that you've had some type of clinical experience and are not recognized by all states as a ligament nursing training program, although there idea was innovative. The reason you can't get a fully approved/ accredited ADN or Nursing Diploma is because you need the vital face to face clinical hours and face to face classroom learning so that you are adequately prepared to sit for the NCLEX-PN/RN and be licensed to practice as a autonomous healthcare provider. That's just the way I see it. Of course my way will never be agreeable with everyone else's opinions, but to be honest that's not my problem, "to each their own".
I'm in an ASN program at a community college, and I will graduate debt free in May of 2013. I will then get a job, apply for an online BSN program, and have my BSN in 1.5 years. My friend, who just HAD to go to a four year program and get her BSN cannot apply for the nursing program until June of 2013, and will not be able to graduate until the end of 2015 or beginning of 2016. She is also paying $36,000 a year to go to the school she is attending, and she has been there since the beginning of 2011. In total, she will have spent between $180,000 and $216,000 for her RN. I, on the other hand, for both my ASN and BSN, will have only spent about $20,000. Now, tell me how stupid it is to go to a community college again? I am going to graduate with no debt, I am going to graduate before my friend, and, by the time she actually gets out of nursing school, I will be a BSN RN with between 2 and 3 years of experience. Don't ever let ignorant people try to tell you that you are unintelligent when you are making a smart decision. My same friend thought that there was some big distinction between ASN and BSN RNs (she thought I wasn't going to be able to do as much as her, skills wise) and she was shocked to learn that, basically, the job descriptions are exactly the same. Needless to say, she is now upset that she is spending so much money to get a degree that I will have before her for a substantially less amount of money.
I chose a BSN because at the end of the day, that's where nursing is headed. I'm not saying that ADN nurses aren't fantastic and intelligent--some are. However, with the professionalism requirement changing and more and more hospitals requiring a BSN to be hired, it makes no sense to me to get an ADN (at least, in the city that I live in). Also, not having a BA or BSN makes it harder to advance in your field... So if you have ambitions of moving up the totem pole, you need to get a bachelor's anyway. Just my two cents.
Also, I think that some of the posters on here are a little judgmental. If you don't want university grads to judge your decision to go to a CC, don't judge their decision to get a higher degree. Seriously, it's a little ridiculous...
I realize that a lot of places now prefer BSN prepared nurses, but in my area, 99% of jobs are available to both ASN and BSN nurses. Therefore, it makes more sense for me to get my ASN, go to work, and then get my BSN online. That way, I can cut down on costs and get to work faster. In my opinion, it's ridiculous to prefer BSN nurses over any other RN. At the end of the day, we are all doing the same job, and we are all RNs. It doesn't matter what kind of letters we have behind our name. Of course, BSN nurses can work as unit directors, directors of nursing, and in office settings, but those type of jobs are my worst nightmare. I want to be an ICU nurse at the bedside doing patient care. There is a possibility that in the distant future, at least fifteen years from now, I may go back and get my NP, and that is the only reason I am even getting my BSN after I graduate with my ASN. If that possibility didn't exist, no matter how slight it may be, I wouldn't even consider it. I don't care anything about moving away from patient care, and I feel that it is ridiculous to require nurses to be BSN prepared when we are facing such a nursing shortage. Not to say that BSN nurses aren't intelligent and great nurses, but they don't have any more clinical skills than any other RN. I just don't think that forcing nurses to get an expensive and time consuming BSN degree is a good idea; especially when it only allows them to take jobs in management. If you're the type of person who is interested in being a nurse manager, and you can put up with all of that, I say more power to you; but don't force me to get a degree that will not help me at the bedside just because it makes your hospital and your unit look better.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
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FlyingScot, RN
2,016 Posts
I do...so I can.