So, tonight I was talking about the classes I'll be taking this fall at my local community college (one of which is chemistry which I'm a little nervous about since I've never had a chemistry class before) with my wonderful bachelor's degree holding partner who, in an attempt to ease my anxiety makes the comment "Well, it's just at a community college so the class should be pretty easy." Wrong thing to say honey...
It did however get me to thinking about the general attitudes that people have towards not only community colleges but also to vocational/trade schools. That those of us who go to such institutions are intellectually inadequate and wouldn't be able to handle the academic rigors of a 4 year college or university. This attitude is completely inaccurate, after all if my classes were so EASY then the 4 year colleges and universities in my area wouldn't have an articulation agreement which honors the credits I take at the community college. It is a different atmosphere in a community college of course, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn the material and learn it well in order to pass.
I remember in high school when I decided to enter the Practical Nursing program at the vocational school how I received criticism, statements such as "Well, you need to go to a 4 year college, anything less is for people who are stupid." and even now when I tell people I'm an LPN and that I've been at a community college taking classes I'm greeted with a concerned expression, a half smile, and a polite nod. A voice bubble might as well pop up above their head saying, "Well, since you're a failure at life and this is all you have, I'll be happy for you." after all since I'm going to a community college it means I can't handle REAL academics.
It may sound as though I'm jealous of those who get to receive a university education and have a bachelor's degree or above and are the same age as myself. And, yes, at times I am jealous because I would have loved to have had the same experience. But that simply just wasn't my path, one day I will "pull my time" in a four year college, my path will take me there, just not yet.
I believe no matter your credentials, whether you're doctorate degree holding FNP or a certificate holding CNA that you should be incredibly proud. Whether you're bachelor's prepared RN or a diploma holding LPN you should be proud. Because all levels of education should be revered and respected and valued. I don't feel ashamed of not already being a Registered Nurse or a college graduate nor do I have any regret at first becoming a CNA and then becoming an LPN because I still am helping people and I am still living my dream and that dream was to be independent. If you're a BSN or an ADN be PROUD of it no matter what your credentials are because you earned them.
College graduates face really discouraging odds. Many are unemployed, many more are employed in something other than their field of study, and many still are up to their eyeballs in debt. My partner for instance has a bachelor's degree yet works in job making a little over minimum wage. That is why I chose the path I did. When I was 17 and I enrolled in the LPN program, I knew due to my personal and financial circumstances that I couldn't afford to go to college just yet, I needed to be self sufficient and going to a trade school and later to a community college would allow me to do that. It wasn't the right choice for everyone but it was for me, and because of that I can pay for my school one semester at a time while minimizing and most semesters avoiding student loans, not to mention a few years head start on 401k versus my peers and that feels really good.
A dear friend of mine always wanted to be a mechanic, her family, peers, etc were not supportive "only stupid people do something like that" so instead she got 2 bachelor's degrees, is jobless, and owes thousands of dollars in student loans. All this because her dream was too "stupid" in the eyes of her parents and everyone else. Side not, I know many mechanics who make more money than I do and they're all pretty happy. I think the attitude that you go to college to "make a better life for yourself" isn't always accurate. We shouldn't be telling our children that they have to go to college in order to be considered intelligent or successful. We should be telling them that in this world success isn't defined by your credentials or where you went to school or how much money you make, it's defined by getting out of life what you make of it and what you want from it. Do what you love people, whether you're a CNA or a Medical Doctor, do what you love and love what you do and be proud but above all else never assume that someone is stupid simply because their education is different from yours.
Whew... feels good to get that out.
Oh and my partner quickly apologized for what he said. Probably had something to do with the fact I spouted off this little speech in the course of sixty seconds after his comment.
Well, I actually read this entire thread, and now my head is spinning. I have nothing against CCs, but I chose a 4 year university because of the market. I'm hoping that having a BSN may help me find a job easier. Don't know if it will work or not, but that is the route I chose. Besides, I know myself and one day there would be a job that I wanted that would require a BSN. Then I would be ticked at myself for not having it. To each their own though.....
CC's are great. If I would have gotten in to the CC program here I would have gone, but I didn't apply, partly because I already have an associates and 115 credits, and because the CC needed another class that I never took, so I applied and got into the 4 year university. My other reason for a BSN is for PA or NP school after I am finished with my BSN. But I would have been happy with the an ADN, especially with the lower cost. Man I kinda miss the cost effectiveness of community college. I did get into a rigorous ADN program in VA at the community college but my husband got orders and we had to move right when I was supposed to start. Wish we could have stayed but everything happens for a reason right?!:heartbeat
In jest- maybe the ADN nurses can be RN-, simple RN, 2 year RN, RN by experience only.
Nothing is ever done only in jest!
The feeling that I get is a desperate sense of self-defense from the ADNs. ADNs have been persecuted since the degree first took off. Initially the majority were diploma nurses who did not get a college degree, but went for three years, much of it spent staffing the hospital and learning from experience. They often had professors from the local colleges but did not get that set of letters that makes the credits easy to transfer.
Diploma nurses were resentful that the ADN only had to go two years, therefore they must be inferior! And to add insult to injury the ADN was welcomed by the BSN programs and given lots of advanced standing credits.
Now we have a different friction. We are down to two RN majorities, as most of the diploma schools have closed or worked things out so as to get their students an ADN. I see the BSN quickly overtaking the ADN programs. It does not mean one is of better quality than another. They are just different.
I remember a time when we had Waiver Nurses. I bet a lot of you never even heard of such a thing. These were a type of LPN who was granted licensure by waiver. They did
not actually go to nursing school but learned on the job. Can you imagine how they were treated? Or maybe this whole "my license is better than yours" attitude started after that. I don't know. Everything changes.
LPNs were going to be phased out in the 80s. Then they found that they were actually cost effective and cost became paramount with the implementation of DRGs. So they were important again. More recently we are seeing increased acuity levels in all settings, increased technology and need for case management. LPNs are finding it a little rough out there again.
Maybe we need to as a profession put this whole issue to a vote. Every nurse gets a ballot with their license renewal. Should we maintain all these entry levels? Should we eliminate LPNs and make the ADN a separate entity?- the "Technical Nurse" as they were going to call it back in the 80s? Should we make a BSN the entry level to practice as an RN? Should we give BSNs a new designation to reflect the additional classes? (And no, it is not just humanities classes. There are also additional nursing courses in a BSN program). RN+? SUPER DUPER RN? BSRN? RNMAX? RRN? LOL
I think we need to come to a consensus on this issue and we should all have some say in it. We all work in the field and we are all stakeholders. Why is it that Physical Therapy and Pharmacy can come to a decision on these things, but we can't? Is it because of the variety of nursing roles out there? I don't know.
Change is so painfully slow for nursing because we have such inertia. No one seems to lead the way. We are all focused on clinical issues, rather than unity as a profession, leadership and growth. Nurse Practitioners seem to be the only ones who have any focus. The rest of us just plod along doing our jobs, hoping to keep our jobs. We need someone dynamic - a new vision. Maybe some future president will have a nurse wife? There is always hope.
DISCLAIMER: I mean no offense by the above made up titles, it was all in jest since some of the BSNs seem to feel supreme.
Two amusing incidents that happened to this old ADN grad:
When I had finished my ADN program, I ran into a high school classmate who had flunked out of a BSN program. She asked me if the ADN was "easier" because it was at a community college. Uh, no.
A couple of years later, I ran into an old boyfriend, also from high school, and told him I had just finished my BSN. He told me he was proud of me for "finally" becoming an RN. I politely told him that I had been an RN ever since I passed boards after finishing my ADN. After an ignorant statement like that, there was no hope whatsoever to resurrect that romance!
And one from my master's program:
Years later, I was complaining to a friend and her husband about the difficulty of my MSN program and the husband said that he just didn't understand why I was so stressed and challenged. His sister had two master's degrees (accounting and MBA) and said her programs were easy peasy! So why was I studying so much?
Moral of the stories: no matter what route you take with your education, some ignoramus is always going to try to belittle your achievements and put you down. Success is the best revenge. Go out and do the best you can in whatever program you're taking!
This reminded me of my graduation night from my Community College's ADN program. There were alot of 'academic achievement' awards given out. But funny enough, none were given to any students from the nursing program, even though we all had to maintain a 'B' average. LOL!
In jest- maybe the ADN nurses can be RN-, simple RN, 2 year RN, RN by experience only.
Nothing is ever done only in jest!
Now that, is a put down. :down:You are in effect saying that they are less than an RN. I was thinking more on the lines of an ADN as RN, and the BSN as beyond just RN.
I originally started at an ADN program. If anything those are just as grueling as a bsn program but cheaper in cost (sometimes). I know at our local county hospital that nurses with a BSN only make $.50 more per hour than nurses with an ADN. I wish I could have continued with my ADN but unfortunately I couldn't. Everything happens for a reason right?!
Now that, is a put down. :down:You are in effect saying that they are less than an RN. I was thinking more on the lines of an ADN as RN, and the BSN as beyond just RN.
That is not at all what you said or what you conveyed. You are back peddling because you were called out.
I agree OP! :) I have a useless Bachelors and a heap of debt to go with it.
I am going to push my children VERY hard to attend CC for a few years if they chose the college route. Especially if I'm paying. hehe
My husband teaches at the CC and University here in the hard sciences. By his account, CC is equal to if not harder than University. He teaches the same classes both places.
I often wonder why ANY degrees are offered at the Bachelor's level, at least useful ones. My additional "well rounded" course work has certainly not helped me in nursing school. Philosophy? European History? Please.
I agree OP! :) I have a useless Bachelors and a heap of debt to go with it.
I am going to push my children VERY hard to attend CC for a few years if they chose the college route. Especially if I'm paying. hehe
My husband teaches at the CC and University here in the hard sciences. By his account, CC is equal to if not harder than University. He teaches the same classes both places.
I often wonder why ANY degrees are offered at the Bachelor's level, at least useful ones. My additional "well rounded" course work has certainly not helped me in nursing school. Philosophy? European History? Please.
It's understandable to wish you had spent less on college, but there's something wrong with thinking that any additional education is useless.
I'm sure that there are some universities that are much harder than community colleges. But if you aren't in the Ivy leagues or at Cal at Berkeley, don't come braggin! Your 4 year, online, no transit, taught in your pajamas degree has no more weight than the 2 year. Sorry.
It's understandable to wish you had spent less on college, but there's something wrong with thinking that any additional education is useless.
The poster hasn't said that her additional education was useless. She just has pointed out that it hasn't helped her in nursing school, the same classes apparently, that make up a BSN.
Wrong thing to say honey... 
I politely told him that I had been an RN ever since I passed boards after finishing my ADN. After an ignorant statement like that, there was no hope whatsoever to resurrect that romance! 
NurseMaybeBaby
80 Posts
Well, I actually read this entire thread, and now my head is spinning. I have nothing against CCs, but I chose a 4 year university because of the market. I'm hoping that having a BSN may help me find a job easier. Don't know if it will work or not, but that is the route I chose. Besides, I know myself and one day there would be a job that I wanted that would require a BSN. Then I would be ticked at myself for not having it. To each their own though.....