Can a RN legally supervise BSN's and MSN's?

[cosmicjustice]

I have a concern. I've heard of nurses at the BSN and MSN level expressing concerns about having to be supervised by a nurse who only is a registered nurse. The RN (registered nurse) has some years of experience but ever since she got the position of supervisor there has been concerns of her ability to govern the nursing department without having a bachelor's or master's degree in nursing. Basically, this is like saying someone with an AA degree is qualified to be a university professor whose requirement is to hold at least a master's degree. Obviously, a person that holds an AA degree cannot be a professor at any college nor university. Should this not also be the requirement, especially in an outpatient surgery center where one's health and well-being are at stake be similar? How can an RN be above an MSN in rank? Is this ethical and legal? The work environment is allegedly in constant tension with a high turnover rate. Please advise. Where should I turn to, to  find if this is a legal violation.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

All RNs, regardless of degree, hold equal licensure (unless those MSNs are advanced practice degrees) so no, there is not an issue with someone of equal licensure supervising those with other degrees. Heck, anyone can legally supervise administratively (approving time cards, creating schedules, etc) without a nursing degree/license at all. The only time there is any kind of issue is if someone doesn't have the licensure to evaluate clinically, ie an RN cannot evaluate the clinical practice of an NP or CRNA.

Academia is a whole different world and that argument doesn't apply in this situation. Viewing nurses of varying degrees as "unequal" in a clinical setting where all degrees lead to the same license is only going to create drama, and probably explains the constant tension and turnover. 

[Wuzzie]

Hate to break it to you but your BSN or MSN won't get you a professorship either. Time to hop off that horse. 

[JKL33]

Quote

The RN (registered nurse) has some years of experience but ever since she got the position of supervisor there has been concerns of her ability to govern the nursing department without having a bachelor's or master's degree in nursing

This concern demonstrates poor use of emotional energy.  No, it is certainly neither illegal nor inherently unethical.  You should discuss professionally with your supervisor if you have a specific clinical or administrative concern; otherwise forget about this status nonsense. Your post is also poorly written for someone with presumably at least a 4-year college degree. Humility is underrated. 

[Nurse Beth, MSN]

The best RN supervisors I've known had skills that had nothing to do with  their degrees.

[phill_rn, MSN, APRN]

JKL33 said:

This concern demonstrates poor use of emotional energy.  No, it is certainly neither illegal nor inherently unethical.  You should discuss professionally with your supervisor if you have a specific clinical or administrative concern; otherwise forget about this status nonsense. Your post is also poorly written for someone with presumably at least a 4-year college degree. Humility is underrated. 

I couldn't agree more.  OP fall back and stop the drama-stop it from escalating. Let it end with U

[Wuzzie]

phill_rn said:

Let it end with U

Pretty sure it started with the OP. 

[klone, MSN, RN]

This is funny. 

I can tell you, NOTHING I learned about how to be a good supervisor/manager/leader was from my MSN program. In fact, I've known many LPNs who make better managers than RNs I've met. The manager that I admire the most, that I've learned the most from about motivating people and creating excitement about the workplace, wasn't an RN at all, but I think had an MHA.

OP, sounds like yours is a toxic environment, and it sounds like maybe you are part of the problem.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

Wow. Just an RN? Sorry to break it to you but that "just an RN" holds the exact same license as the BSN and MSN nurses that you seem to think are more qualified for a management role based solely on their degree.  Depending on the management role that manager might not even be required to be a nurse at all. 

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

I don't understand the question- there is no legal issue. 

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

An RN is an RN whether they have a 2 year degree, a 4 year degree, or a masters. We have ADN nurses at my facility that have been there 25+ years and were grandfathered out of the BSN requirement. We have had new grads that have come in with a new degree that is a "Masters of Nursing" not an MSN. They are brand spanking new nurses with zero experience as a nurse. That 25 year nurse is a charge RN, a preceptor, runs the unit beautifully. The other one can barely find the clock in machine. 

I have a MSN in Informatics and still work the floor. I look to my mentor, who happens to be that 25+ year experienced ADN RN. 

[akulahawkRN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

I'm going to pretty much echo the above. An RN, regardless of possession of an academic degree, is an RN. An RN may clinically supervise another RN unless that other RN possesses a higher level license in addition to the RN license. Please do note that I did not state "higher level degree" because that has little bearing on this discussion. 

I'm an RN who worked as a Paramedic and who worked as an athletic trainer, whose Bachelor's degree is in Sports Medicine. From a clinical perspective, I'm basically "just" a 10 year RN with all the typical experience one gains from that. However, NONE of that RN experience actually taught me how to be a supervisor or run a floor, department, or unit. I have work experience as a Paramedic but I also have specific administrative education from the Sports Med side that taught me that stuff. "Nursing" doesn't "see" any of that because it's blindered to anything that's not "nursing" related. If I took that same admin coursework and it had "nursing" attached to it, I'd be all good... 

That experience and education also allows me to quickly determine who has been trained to do supervisory work, regardless of the underlying nursing stuff. Supervision skills aren't unique to nursing. Some of the best "supervisors" and "managers" that I have worked with as an RN have been trained how to do the "supervisor" job through the military. It doesn't matter what the job is, the underlying skills necessary are transferrable from one area to another. 

Some of the worst managers I have ever met were promoted too quickly and without having the requisite training to do actual supervison. 

In my case, I know that I am very much capable of doing a manager job. I also know what my overall skillset is and I'm far better utilized in the position I currently occupy. 

Now then, should I further my education through a Master's Degree and that degree be Business Admin or something similar, then I'd be able to step away from bedside and more into the "business" side of running things. That being said, I'd be more of a "business" nurse and not really a "patient care" nurse but I'd still be able to "supervise" from a clinical perspective because I'd still be a "nurse." 

Please do not think that I'm denigrating advanced degrees by any stretch. I'm 100% all for obtaining advanced degrees. There can be nursing roles that require a specific advanced education to be in that role... but within any specific nursing role, a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. And yes, I very much do defer to other nurses who have experience and/or education in an area that I do not have any significant expertise. Just because I'm an RN doesn't mean that I'm expert in all things nursing.