can a RN legally supervise BSN's and MSN's please advise

[cosmicjustice]

I have a concern. I've heard of nurses at the BSN and MSN level expressing concerns about having to be supervised by a nurse who only is a registered nurse. The RN (registered nurse) has some years of experience but ever since she got the position of supervisor there has been concerns of her ability to govern the nursing department without having a bachelor's or master's degree in nursing. Basically, this is like saying someone with an AA degree is qualified to be a university professor whose requirement is to hold at least a master's degree. Obviously, a person that holds an AA degree cannot be a professor at any college nor university. Should this not also be the requirement, especially in an outpatient surgery center where one's health and well-being are at stake be similar? How can an RN be above an MSN in rank? Is this ethical and legal? The work environment is allegedly in constant tension with a high turnover rate. Please advise. Where should I turn to, to  find if this is a legal violation.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Many people in my ADN to BSN program were already in managerial positions, including being the "house supervisor" of hospitals.  Some hospitals and organizations have the luxury of only hiring higher degreed management.  I worked at a facility where all nurse managers had to have a Masters or be working on it.  Other smaller more rural facilities this isn't true.  Experience, leadership skills and being an RN factor in more than a degree in areas where it's slimmer pickings.  From what I've seen.  And yes this might mean an experienced ADN leader might supervisor BSN's or higher.  Yes and.....

As far as the legality of it.  Doubtful it would be a widespread occurrence around the country if it was illegal.  

 

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

Given that OP hasn't come back to this I'm going to say "troll"

A nursee with an MSN is an RN

A nurse with a BN is an RN

There is no legal issues. I've learned heaps from wonderful enrolled nurses (equivalent of LPN) and some of them would make better leaders than RNs I've worked with.

I watched a 'senior nurse' bully another nurse into an unsafe working environment. 

[Barriss Offee]

How is OP a nurse and OP doesn't know how this works? Your license determines what you do. Hell, there are APRNs and PAs out there who have bachelor's degrees. Some schools trained APRNs and PAs to the bachelor's degree until the mid-2000s. If an APRN with 20-30+ years of experience has a bachelor's degree, is the floor supervisor with a master's degree going to ignore the APRNs orders and report that APRN to the board? What kind of question is OP even asking? OP is grasping for straws here. This has nothing to do with credentials and everything to do with OP trying to find some kind of way to go after this other person even if it means via a witch hunt. 

[JayHanig]

kbrn2002 said:

Wow. Just an RN? Sorry to break it to you but that "just an RN" holds the exact same license as the BSN and MSN nurses that you seem to think are more qualified for a management role based solely on their degree.  Depending on the management role that manager might not even be required to be a nurse at all. 

As I recall, we all took the same exam to get the same license from the state to allow us to practice nursing.  It's worth noting that typically new grad BSNs arrive with the least technical skills.  We all learn on the job.  Frankly, the old diploma school nurses arrived the best prepared to hit the floor running as new grads.

[Suzofthesouth60]

I worked as an Associate Degree nurse, charge nurse over med/surg floors, as house supervisor, Pre-op and Pacu. Many of the BSN nurses I had under me required more teaching and assistance due to the fact they did not have the skills set the associate degree nurses had. I have my BSN now and proudly say that. But it did not change me or how I care for patients. Many smaller hospitals have Associate degree colleges nearby and thus have more in their facilities. BSN and MSN were usually in the administrative roles. 

[Patricia Ordnung]

I'm also "just an RN".  I'm a bit perplexed by the whole post.  Degrees don't make anybody a better nurse.  What does is experience, empathy, people skills, and the ability to appreciate your co-workers, no matter what their level of education is.  

[Jeckrn1, ADN, BSN]

Leadership is more than a degree. Degrees teach you the basics not how to apply them in real life. 

[payitforward]

I'm sorry if I get any backlash from this comment but as long as she is QUALIFIED for the position who cares? This is one of the reasons why I am out of nursing. There is ALWAYS someone who feels that they cannot learn or be supervised by someone because of their credentials. If she is a nurse and is performing her job,(well)let it go.

[Zaphina]

I do have a small issue with that, being that if the "DRN", is power-hungry because of the D in front of the RN, then that person does not make a good Director or manager. Just because a person has an AAS and because they have reached a BSN by way of a say, weekend program. Or because they have an AAS and then they become a BS, or receive a MS in their travels does not make them any less of an awesome Director or manager. Let's not look at the initials as much as we look at the individual that's doing the managing. 

[MacNinni123]

I bet the nurse questioning degee preference for supervisorship is a brand, spanking new BSN. What do you bet? I'll never forget when I was in my ADN nursing program many...many...moons ago, I went for one of my clinicals and discovered the two supervising nurses on the postpartum floor were both LPNs, They were, with out a doubt, the BEST supervisors I EVER worked under. Both had worked that floor for 30 years and knew everything there was to know about their specialty. Experience, OP, is what counts. To begin with, LPNs get far more of it right from the get go while in school. The rest of  us too often get it by baptism by fire...especially the higher the degree grade. The higher the degree, the more time is spent in class...not at the bedside. And, when one gets to begin their hospital career, too often they find their "mentor" is just too darn busy to help much. Never underestimate the knowledge of the LPN, ADN, and on up. Pay attention to their experiences.

[EKUGRAD, BSN, MSN, RN, CNS]

Come down off the cross, Martha. People need the wood.

They are mostly dinosaurs now, but Diploma Grads used to be the go-to for expertise and mentoring in nursing. No college degree. Becoming a nurse was called "training". Not education. My mother was a diploma grad, US Army Cadet Nurse. Her training would be considered human torture today. Example:  Her first night shift in training was in the newborn nursery. She had 21 babes to care for alone. Remember, she also had to mix up the formula, wash and sterilize the bottles and nipples, feed each baby every 2 hours, meds as necessary (this was way before NICU). She had cloth diapers to contend with. She was in there from 11:00 PM until 8:00 AM.

Back in her day, when nurses graduated, they earned the coveted knee-length, wool cape. That's right. Every diploma nurse upon graduation was given a Navy-blue wool cape with red lining and "RN' embroidered on the collar with "GSH" (Good Samaritan Hospital) on the other side. She has told me some stories that kept me up at night (still do sometimes). After 45 years practice in everything from combat nursing to flight crew to Level I Trauma to forensic psych, now I can tell some stories that will keep baby nurses awake at night!

 

 

[JohnHood, BSN]

I've worked with a number of Nursing Supervisors with ADNs. Degrees make no difference. What is important is experience, knowledge and skill. Nursing Supervisors are the highest-ranking position in the hospital in the off hours. A degree means nothing. It's someone who knows what's going on and what to do in a crisis. I'm a retired Nursing Administrative Supervisor. I do have a BSN, but I had 16 years experience before moving into the role. My three fellow Supervisors were ADNs with many years of experience.