can a RN legally supervise BSN's and MSN's please advise

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I have a concern. I've heard of nurses at the BSN and MSN level expressing concerns about having to be supervised by a nurse who only is a registered nurse. The RN (registered nurse) has some years of experience but ever since she got the position of supervisor there has been concerns of her ability to govern the nursing department without having a bachelor's or master's degree in nursing. Basically, this is like saying someone with an AA degree is qualified to be a university professor whose requirement is to hold at least a master's degree. Obviously, a person that holds an AA degree cannot be a professor at any college nor university. Should this not also be the requirement, especially in an outpatient surgery center where one's health and well-being are at stake be similar? How can an RN be above an MSN in rank? Is this ethical and legal? The work environment is allegedly in constant tension with a high turnover rate. Please advise. Where should I turn to, to  find if this is a legal violation.

Specializes in Operating room, ER, Home Health.

This is being taught at some schools that only BSN's and above will be any type of supervisor. Back when I was in a RN-BSN program I had a conversation with 2 young nursing students who said they were told they would be supervisors because they were getting their BSN. I put it back on them and asked if all their classmates would be supervisors and out came the deer in the headlights look. 

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in HEMATOLOGY/ONCOLOGY/INFUSION.

The position of being a supervisor of a hospital unit has evolved in its titles and ideals since Matrons became Nursing Administrators. Undoubtedly, the healthcare profession has become a business, especially in the USA, where the bottom line cannot be ignored.

Nevertheless, the advantages gained from experience and practical nursing knowledge, acquired through hands-on work and skill development, as well as from managing staff and patients, understanding your team's challenges, and advocating on their behalf, do not necessarily stem from holding a degree or master's. And I'm going to dare to say this... having a BSN/MSN does not necessarily make you a better nurse.! Or lead you to become the balanced leader who advocates for the needs of both the staff and the patients! Or should allow you to believe that you are entitled to job positions above someone who has worked hard through every stage of a nursing career and is a born leader.

 Although at the end of the day, I have to agree that the chances are low that the nurse would get invited for an interview.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

Things have sure changed a lot in the 27+ years I've been in nursing. Back then, I was automatically the supervisor on a given shift because I was the only RN on the floor...or even in the building! I was also encouraged to move up the corporate ladder by becoming a resident care manager, then ADNS, and ultimately DNS. Then there was that time the company wanted me to be a regional nurse consultant responsible for seven states (!), but I was in the middle of a manic episode. Thank goodness I had just enough of my soul left to turn down the job, which I did. Never regretted it either, even though it would have put me into six figures and my own home office, long before the pandemic made it necessary.

My point being, I went farther than I ever wanted or needed to on my "little" ASN. But that was a long time ago...education is much more valued now, to nurses' detriment in some ways as the tone of this thread indicates to me. I don't like it when nurses look down on each other because they think lack of a BSN or MSN makes a RN "less-than". I'm proud of you who have stepped up here to discourage that sort of thinking!

8
Up Vote Up Vote ×
kbrn2002 said:

Wow. Just an RN? Sorry to break it to you but that "just an RN" holds the exact same license as the BSN and MSN nurses that you seem to think are more qualified for a management role based solely on their degree.  

Hear, hear!!   Much to the chagrin of some, a RN is a RN regardless of degree.  A RN with a doctorate holds the same licensure as a RN with an associate's degree.  Or for that matter the same as one with the old school diplomas, if any are still living.  Unless the masters-prepared nurses in question are nurse practitioners, but that was not indicated in the article.  
 

Are there courses in the BSN program (or more accurately MSN admin program) that might help a manager with the non-clinical aspects such as budgeting and conflict resolution?  Absolutely.  Do these have any bearing on clinical competency or licensure? Absolutely not!  
 

Anyone who looks down at another nurse for being "just" an RN needs to take a long look in the mirror.  

5
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med-Surg.

I went step by step from LPN to MSN, and heard the "just an" insult at every level. I now expect to one day meet Optimus Prime/Primette in business attire saying, "you're just a human; we want..” Oh but wait! Artificial Intelligence is tapping into some healthcare positions, right? Well then, there you have it. 

Over my nearly-forty year nursing career, I've seen several higher-degree-level nurses in key management roles that were relieved of duty for incompetency in the positions that they occupied.

My approach to nursing is to just focus on the role you were hired to do until you resign, retire, or are terminated. 

5
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.

Okay.   Consider this.

My husband is currently trying to finish his Bachelor's Degree, at 55.  In order to finish a BA in University Studies, he needed to take a number of online, 300-400 level courses.  

He's taking like, 5 nursing courses.  BSN courses.  My husband, who has never worked in the medical field.  

The difference between an RN and a BSN is a lot of classes that a guy with no medical experience can likely ace.  

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Operating room, ER, Home Health.
NurseCard said:

Okay.   Consider this.

My husband is currently trying to finish his Bachelor's Degree, at 55.  In order to finish a BA in University Studies, he needed to take a number of online, 300-400 level courses.  

He's taking like, 5 nursing courses.  BSN courses.  My husband, who has never worked in the medical field.  

The difference between an RN and a BSN is a lot of classes that a guy with no medical experience can likely ace.  

Just because you take nursing courses does not make you a RN. You need to graduate from the nursing program and pass the NCLEX. Not sure what you are trying to say in your post. 

0
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Jeckrn1 said:

Just because you take nursing courses does not make you a RN. You need to graduate from the nursing program and pass the NCLEX. Not sure what you are trying to say in your post. 

The post was not saying that at all. 

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).

When I worked in a SNF all the charge nurses were LVN/LPN and they were good at it. Plus they absorbed all of the head aches 

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in kids.
Jeckrn1 said:

Leadership is more than a degree. Degrees teach you the basics not how to apply them in real life. 

Fact!

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment