Can job termination occur if nurses do not get the flu shot and refuse to wear a mask

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Oct 28, 2014

so, Helen.....this was your first post. Any thoughts on the subject now?

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Oct 28, 2014

Short answer: yes.

You have many options; unless you have a mitigating situation with your health, and you are willing to wear a mask, there's no way around it in most places, let alone a nursing home where residents due to their advanced age are considered vulnerable.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Oct 28, 2014

Yes, one can be fired for refusing flu shot AND refusing to wear mask in PA as employers have the right to set conditions of employment.

Healthcare facilities are being required to achieve 90% immunization rates by 2020 as part of Healthy People 2020 goals and ethically as a health care provider safeguarding health of staff and residents by minimizing spread of influenza infection.

OCNRN63, RN · Oct 28, 2014

A nurse in Lancaster was terminated from one of the local hospitals for refusing to obtain the flu shot. I don't recall if she also refused to wear a mask, or if wearing a mask was even an option,

Editorial Team / Admin · Oct 28, 2014

A nurse in Lancaster was terminated from one of the local hospitals for refusing to obtain the flu shot. I don't recall if she also refused to wear a mask, or if wearing a mask was even an option,

The mask was not an option without medical/religious exemption. Flu shot, medical/religious exemption with mask, or termination were the only options. Here's the old thread- the original link only goes to the site's homepage, but the link in the second post is still usable.

https://allnurses.com/disasters-preparing-responding/pregnant-nurse-fired-894843.html

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2014

But this person refuses even to wear mask.

Then yes, that makes sense that she should be removed from the premises. I can see not getting the shot if there is a contraindication to it, but then one should understand that as potential carriers of this infectious agent, one must take alternative measures to protect the pts/residents. In this case, the facility's policy is wearing a mask. She/he should understand that there is no risk of Guillian-Barre or allergic reactions with masks.

The last place I worked at actually fired an RN in the middle of her shift and escorted out by security, when she refused to produce documentation of her vaccine status AND refused to wear a mask. This was a small LTACH; I had initially been assigned as a 1:1 in the ICU, but I ended up taking this RN's 5-pt floor assignment with no report because she had been escorted out of the building. Admin's take this pretty seriously!! As should we, the clinical experts.

LTC residents, with their age and close living quarters, are a vulnerable population. Evidence-based best practices are to have them cared for by vaccinated nurses/aides.

Seasoned · Oct 30, 2014

YES! Unfortunately it is legal if the hospital policy states it is mandatory or terminated; but not logical, because:

- visitors and patients do not have to get the flu shot so the protection is not universal

- the vaccine is only one strain common in the area so you can still get another strain of the flu from traveling

- hospitals give you a deadline to get the vaccine so you can get the flu before the deadline and still have to get the vaccine

- you can pay some doctors, PAs and APRN to write that you got the vaccine, unethical, illegal, but grown-up, it happens!

PICK YOUR WORKPLACE BATTLES! - there are so many for nurses. This is just not worth the protest. I have never had the flu or the vaccine. But if I share how I get around it I'd have to change my name, not worth it. Want to act-out in passive aggressive protest? Call out when anyone comes to work with you sick with cold symptoms coughing and sneezing OR have the powers that be make that person wear a mask the who shift and hope it's a boss ;-]

If you have the face mask option, have some real fun with it. Google: "funny surgical face masks" and invest in making statement or draw some silly things on it,i.e., red lips, tongue hanging out, words: "HELLo", My name is, a smile, mustache...etc

calivianya, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2014

You get fired with my employer if you don't get the flu shot and you don't have a medical reason why you shouldn't. Our deadline is mid-November, and if you're lucky they might just suspend you without pay for a few days until you get it, but you can definitely be terminated on the spot, too.

Red Kryptonite · Oct 30, 2014

- the vaccine is only one strain common in the area so you can still get another strain of the flu from traveling.

Wrong. Flu shots have at least 3, and now some have 4 different strains. Latest flu vaccines offer protection from 4 influenza strains instead of traditional 3 | TribLIVE Mobile

you can pay some doctors, PAs and APRN to write that you got the vaccine, unethical, illegal, but grown-up, it happens!
...........
I have never had the flu or the vaccine. But if I share how I get around it I'd have to change my name, not worth it.

You kinda already did. Unbelievable. You engage in admitted illegal and unethical behavior, and increase your patients' risk, because you just think your personal preference is that important? You're willing to risk your license over this?

I don't get people.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Oct 30, 2014

YES! Unfortunately it is legal if the hospital policy states it is mandatory or terminated; but not logical, because:
- visitors and patients do not have to get the flu shot so the protection is not universal
- the vaccine is only one strain common in the area so you can still get another strain of the flu from traveling
- hospitals give you a deadline to get the vaccine so you can get the flu before the deadline and still have to get the vaccine
- you can pay some doctors, PAs and APRN to write that you got the vaccine, unethical, illegal, but grown-up, it happens!
PICK YOUR WORKPLACE BATTLES! - there are so many for nurses. This is just not worth the protest. I have never had the flu or the vaccine. But if I share how I get around it I'd have to change my name, not worth it. Want to act-out in passive aggressive protest? Call out when anyone comes to work with you sick with cold symptoms coughing and sneezing OR have the powers that be make that person wear a mask the who shift and hope it's a boss ;-]
If you have the face mask option, have some real fun with it. Google: "funny surgical face masks" and invest in making statement or draw some silly things on it,i.e., red lips, tongue hanging out, words: "HELLo", My name is, a smile, mustache...etc

Where to start? Your information about the flu vaccine itself is incorrect. I suggest you read more about how the various (MULTIPLE) strains included in each year's vaccines are chosen.

You throw out that it is "grown-up" to get illegal documentation from licensed providers, advocate fraud and a lack of ethics, and then suggest that those wearing masks doodle red lips and dangling tongues on them....? This makes zero sense to me.

I'll admit to being shocked about a situation in which a licensed nurse and a licensed provider have colluded to defraud medical records.....we've all seen it plenty of times with Medicare fraud and the like, but.....this one is new to me. And that you'd admit it here just makes it all the more ridiculous.

Seasoned · Oct 31, 2014

Hi Red Kryptonite.

Your tone is hostlile. Are you having a bad day? I see you are a new member to this web site. This a great site for professional opinions and education please don't bring blog attacks.

"Mandatory" Flu shots is relatively new. There has never been any pandemic threats on the strains to which you are being vaccinated in the USA.. It it was that serious patients would also have to be vaccinated.

My ethics are fine I would never jeopardize or compromised the health of patients. What part of I have never had the flu did you miss? I know how to stay home if I am sick. Also it is not a "legal" issue. It is a hospital policy compliance issue. I am a private office nurse (research) and out of direct patient care. The strains of which you mention does not cover the strains in foreign countries that is the reason I clarified "from traveling" in my comment. I have been a nurse over 40 years and never have or will do anything to risk my license.

You want believable, question without judgement rather than assume, respect the opinion of other people and you will "get them".

AmyRN303, BSN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

I believe that suggesting that you "get around" having to have the shot is what may have been the issue...you hint that some providers are (less than ethically) falsifying documentation of vaccination. While I doubt that abstaining from a flu shot is enough to risk losing one's license, falsifying docs about vaccines quite possibly could be....hence Red Kryptonite's comment about risking one's license. That's how it's coming across at least.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but to say RK is "having a bad day" or making a "blog attack" for questioning that boggles my mind. I'm not seeing how his/her concerns are unfounded, regardless of time spent on this site.