Can job termination occur if nurses do not get the flu shot and refuse to wear a mask

Seasoned · Oct 31, 2014

Hi RNsRWe,

You tone is hostile. And you seem so invested in that tone you made comments without good reading comprehension coupled with unfounded assumption...sad.

I work in a private office at a hospital where 60-70 % of the nursing staff are foreigners that travel back and forth from their countries so you never know the exact origin of any flu symptoms to which you may be exposed or reacting. i know how to stay home when I am sick (unlike too many staff who just have to be at work regardless). The mandatory flu shot is only a couple years old and gives you about 30 days in the flu season to get it done. So what happens f all the flu exposure to and from your patients before all the direct care staff get their miracle vaccine. What happen to your knowledge of the principals of microbiology and epidemiology? It's all or nothing in a closed-in setting, not licensed yes and nonlicensed no. What happen to freedom of choice that is afforded the patients. Do you recall an epidemic in this country before that warranted vaccination against this current strains?...

OK, so don't forget to get the swine flu vaccine, bird flu vaccine, and especially the ebola vaccine when it becomes available, add the pneumonia vaccine. Your single digit nursing experience speaks loudly. So good luck in the future with more vaccines that pharmaceutical companies will be pushing to be mandatory to employers. And what a shame when you are so chemically protected you get sick from the secondary and interaction effects that oops "they" did not know to warn you.

Your assumption that I pay any professional to falsify a record is your assumption not my reality. I wrote before and I will write again I will not reveal how I get around it. It 's all about being politically savvy. A stone's through away from retirement, I feel sorry you are stuck with the new madness of pharmaceutical exploitation that only "seasoned" old-school nurses will truly get.

AmyRN303, BSN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

In our hospital, all employees are required to comply th the vaccination policy, licensed staff as well as unlicensed personnel. Can one get the flu before vaccination? Absolutely. Do visitors have to show proof of vaccination? Of course not. We do a flu/pneumonia vaccination screening on every single patient and if they are eligible for them, they are given prior to d/c. Of course the patient may elect to refuse, but from an anecdotal standpoint it appears that the majority choose vaccination.

I need clarification on your second paragraph where you state "...(the flu shot) gives you about 30 days in the flu season to get it done." I am insure as to what you meant by that. I and many other employees have already received a shot this month. Flu season may extend into March and April in much of the US. I'd also like to know what you meant by "single digit experience speaks loudly." The PRINCIPLES of epidemiology and microbiology are utilized in the studies which present a strong case FOR flu vaccination.

As with any vaccine, nothing is 100% effective, so therefore people may receive the vax and still come down with the flu. I am certain that those numbers are significantly fewer than if a vaccine did not exist. A cursory search on AllNurses for influenza vaccination will bring up some evidence based studies which have been published.

Red Kryptonite · Oct 31, 2014

Hi RNsRWe,
You tone is hostile.

Hi Red Kryptonite.
Your tone is hostlile

Do you somehow think you're negating our points with this?

Your attitude of entitlement to evade the rules and dishonestly/unethically circumvent them is a discredit to your profession.

As to your assertion that you know when to stay home, unlike Ebola, the flu is most contagious while incubating and BEFORE symptomatic. So it's nonsense to think you're protecting anyone by staying home after you've got symptoms.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

the vaccine is only one strain common in the area so you can still get another strain of the flu from traveling

It's actually 3 (trivalent) or 4 (quadrivalent) strains in the flu vaccine, not just 1, & they are selected based on the most common circulating strains worldwide prior to the season.

mariebailey, MSN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

There has never been any pandemic threats on the strains to which you are being vaccinated in the USA.. It it was that serious patients would also have to be vaccinated.
Actually, the H1N1 strain is in this season's shot. I recall a pandemic from 2009 involving this strain.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

Hi RNsRWe,
You tone is hostile. And you seem so invested in that tone you made comments without good reading comprehension coupled with unfounded assumption...sad.
I work in a private office at a hospital where 60-70 % of the nursing staff are foreigners that travel back and forth from their countries so you never know the exact origin of any flu symptoms to which you may be exposed or reacting. i know how to stay home when I am sick (unlike too many staff who just have to be at work regardless). The mandatory flu shot is only a couple years old and gives you about 30 days in the flu season to get it done. So what happens f all the flu exposure to and from your patients before all the direct care staff get their miracle vaccine. What happen to your knowledge of the principals of microbiology and epidemiology? It's all or nothing in a closed-in setting, not licensed yes and nonlicensed no. What happen to freedom of choice that is afforded the patients. Do you recall an epidemic in this country before that warranted vaccination against this current strains?...
OK, so don't forget to get the swine flu vaccine, bird flu vaccine, and especially the ebola vaccine when it becomes available, add the pneumonia vaccine. Your single digit nursing experience speaks loudly. So good luck in the future with more vaccines that pharmaceutical companies will be pushing to be mandatory to employers. And what a shame when you are so chemically protected you get sick from the secondary and interaction effects that oops "they" did not know to warn you.
Your assumption that I pay any professional to falsify a record is your assumption not my reality. I wrote before and I will write again I will not reveal how I get around it. It 's all about being politically savvy. A stone's through away from retirement, I feel sorry you are stuck with the new madness of pharmaceutical exploitation that only "seasoned" old-school nurses will truly get.

My tone is not hostile. It is, however, clearly irritated at what you posted, and I think it's a reasonable reaction to what I perceive as your ethically-challenged diatribe against rational discourse on the topic. You don't? I'm ok with that.

As for the rest of your paranoid and flawed commentary....? Yeah.....I'm skipping on.

toomuchbaloney · Oct 31, 2014

Hi Seasoned,

Your tone is condescending and your facts are lacking.

Are you having difficulty finding accurate information on the subject?

Seasoned · Oct 31, 2014

"You engage in admitted illegal and unethical behavior... you just think your personal preference is that important...You're willing to risk your license...I don't get people...Your attitude of entitlement to evade the rules and dishonestly/unethically circumvent them is a discredit to your profession.-Red Kryptonite"

"your paranoid and flawed commentary...- AmyRN303

"colluded to defraud medical records...And that you'd admit it - RNsRWe

WOW ... That's not questioning, opinion, or education that's a a personal attack tone. This site is suppose to be about professionals stating opinions, educating, networking. Ok it "was" about that. It's sad that the new folks have influenced by commentary practice, that personal attacks are OK. Be irritated, express that you are ...agree to disagree... but personal attacks is a true discredit to our profession.

Thank you mariebailey for your nonjudgmental professional /educational approach to my comment.

(There is no flu vaccine or record required yet for contractors in my position because we belong to a per diem corporate entity . Sure that may change in the near future but not yet or before I retire.)

Thepersonal blood bath circulating around this issue was not initiated by me ... but I'm ending it here!...

Editorial Team / Admin · Oct 31, 2014

Thread has been reported numerous times by several members.

When you make it personal, it just derails the thread focusing the discussion on each other and not the topic. And, quoting a member really makes it personal.

Remember the ignore feature, too. If a member gets under your skin, do not engage. If you see TOS violations, please report, do not engage.

How to utilize the ignore feature:

Go to your Account and click on the dropdown menu to select, "Ignore list", then follow instructions.

Please allow this to be the only redirect needed on this thread and keep it civil while you stay on topic.

Thanks.

Red Kryptonite · Oct 31, 2014

Eh, I'm fine with ending the discussion. Some people accept the scientific and ethical reasons behind prophylactic health care worker vaccination, and some don't. It's ultimately up to their employers to deal with that.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 4, 2014

If a nursing home nurse refuses the flu shot and refuses to wear a mask during flu season is it legal for employer to terminate employee in Pennsylvania?

Yes. If you refuse the flu shot, you can wear a mask but if you refuse that, too, you can (and probably should) be terminated. The elderly are a particularly susceptible population, and they don't need their caregivers bringing them the flu.

AmyRN303, BSN, RN · Nov 4, 2014

"You engage in admitted illegal and unethical behavior... you just think your personal preference is that important...You're willing to risk your license...I don't get people...Your attitude of entitlement to evade the rules and dishonestly/unethically circumvent them is a discredit to your profession.-Red Kryptonite"
"your paranoid and flawed commentary...- AmyRN303
"colluded to defraud medical records...And that you'd admit it - RNsRWe
WOW ... That's not questioning, opinion, or education that's a a personal attack tone. This site is suppose to be about professionals stating opinions, educating, networking. Ok it "was" about that. It's sad that the new folks have influenced by commentary practice, that personal attacks are OK. Be irritated, express that you are ...agree to disagree... but personal attacks is a true discredit to our profession.
Thank you mariebailey for your nonjudgmental professional /educational approach to my comment.
(There is no flu vaccine or record required yet for contractors in my position because we belong to a per diem corporate entity . Sure that may change in the near future but not yet or before I retire.)
Thepersonal blood bath circulating around this issue was not initiated by me ... but I'm ending it here!...

I don't appreciate you misquoting me. I never said "paranoid and flawed commentary". I asked for clarification from you in an earlier post. You can scroll back to the previous page to see what I said.