Can they demand a 4 week notice and pay me minimum wage? Abandonment?

[Marie.rn]

I work for a company that in the employee handbook it states that if you leave from the day you put in your notice, which may be no less then 4 weeks you get minimum wage for all prior wages to be paid and for the rest of the time. Is this even legal?

Then when one of the administration persons was telling me what the company will do to me if I leave???? Like if I dont give 4 weeks they will report me to OBN for abandonment, and even if I do give notice they will only pay me minimum wage? Who in their right mind would give notice to a place that says, since you did the right thing and gave notice we are going to take away 17.00 an hour???? It felt like the person was trying to scare me, and I did not like it.

So, now I am faced with a job change and for many many reasons I really would like this job due to the shift and the way the facility is managed by the DON and the assistant DON. I interviewed with them months ago, and I got called back for the second interview out of the blue.

What do I do about this place and the minimum wage? I would never leave a place without giving notice but I am not working for minimum wage because I found a better oppurtunity. The benefits are horrible at this place, its just horrible all around.

My orientation was awful. No one set it up to cordinate with anyone, they just stick me with anyone. I have oriented with floats to area covering the regular nurses shifts, and I am orienting them to the floor and I do all the patient care stuff. Its totally awful, and I dont think I should be the one on top of my training.

I cant get people to teach me things to save my life, things like how to admit a patient, how to discharge, how to unplanned discharge, anything like that. U bet I know how to suction, trach care, all of the wounds, all of tube feeds, and head to toe assessments.

What is a respectable amount of time to give notice?

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

I'd report off and the end of my shift, tell TPTB I'm not returning, and make like a banana and split.

Agreed. I'm generally in favor of always giving notice but in this situation, their policy pretty much encourages no notice. No way in H- E- double hockey sticks would I do the work we do for minimum wage. No way. And for FOUR WEEKS? HALE no.

Wait til you have a new job, work as close to your new start date as you need to, and quit after your last shift.

[caliotter3]

Here is a link to the document posted on the Dept. of Industrial Relations, state of CA, website in response to Calinurse11. I have read this policy elsewhere but this one is definitive, easy to find, and, as you can see from the name of the Governor in office, it was adopted many, many years ago in CA.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/TerminationofEmployment.pdf

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

I would give notice and call in sick the whole time rather than work for them for minimum wage.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Now if you leave without notice, technically, they can't charge you with abandonment if you don't accept your assignment. But in home health "accepting the assignment " is slightly broader and may vary state to state.

Here is where home health gets dicey......

An RN or NP withdraws from a contractual relationship with a patient to provide home health, counseling, daily nursing care or another similar service and fails to provide sufficient notice to the patient.

• NYS Nursing:Practice Alerts & Guidelines:RN & LPN Practice Issues:FAQ
  

I think you need to leave this company ASAP. Find some per diem stuff and give you notice and get another job ASAP......and ALWAYS be more careful what you sign when you are hired.

Let us knw how this all works out....I'm curious...Good luck!! :)

Very good catch, Esme. Which is why it's imperative that nurses be familiar with their own state's Nurse Practice Act.

I also agree with the advice to consult an attorney familiar with nurse issues in your state.

[MN-Nurse, ASN, RN]

Dear Nursing Union,

I love you.

Sincerely,

MN-Nurse

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

"I work for a company that in the employee handbook it states that if you leave from the day you put in your notice, which may be no less then 4 weeks you get minimum wage for all prior wages to be paid and for the rest of the time. Is this even legal?"

Is it possible you are misreading the handbook? From what you wrote, it sounds like if you leave before four weeks after giving notice, anything you haven't been paid yet will revert to minimum wage. The way I'm interpreting it is that if you stay for four weeks after giving notice, you will receive full pay.

In other words, stay four weeks after notice=full pay. Leave before the four weeks are up=minimum wage for all hours worked after notice was given that are still unpaid to you.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

very good catch, esme. which is why it's imperative that nurses be familiar with their own state's nurse practice act.

i also agree with the advice to consult an attorney familiar with nurse issues in your state.

the idol on the previous post is illinois department of labor.....not the talent show.....

i saw it on several links like texas as well

some actions may be more obvious examples of unprofessional conduct that could result in sanctions on the nurse's license. examples of conduct that could lead to board action on the nurse's license may include:

failing to initiate or complete an agreed assignment when the nurse is the sole care provider, and/or the nurse is a consultant or supervisor in a home or homelike setting; and/or failing to notify a supervisor in a timely manner that the assignment will not be done, and/or falsifying records to the effect that the missed nursing visit was indeed completed ; and/or

leaving the assigned patient care area and remaining gone/unavailable for a period of time such that the care of any/all patients may be compromised due to lack of available licensed staff.

....position statements

texas is a right to work state and ny is an at will state and they both feel the same. op proceed with caution.

[jeckrn, BSN, RN]

Your employer must pay the agreed upon rate of pay. A promise of future pay increases is not an agreed upon rate of pay. Your employer can change or reduce your rate of pay at any time. The employer must notify you of any reduction in your pay rate prior to the work being performed. Absent an agreed upon rate of pay, employers are only required to pay the minimum wage. IDOL

As crazy as it sounds they can and if you signed your employee handbook....you've already agreed to their terms. Always read think thoroughly before singing anything. Now if you leave without notice, technically, they can't charge you with abandonment if you don't accept your assignment. But in home health "accepting the assignment " is slightly broader and may vary state to state.

For example...the state of New York

Examples of patient abandonment may include, but are not limited to:

• An RN or LPN accepts an assignment for patient care and then leaves the facility without transferring patient care to another qualified individual, when this would seriously impair the delivery of professional care;
  
• An RN leaves the operating room during a surgical case without transferring patient care to another qualified individual, when this would seriously impair the delivery of professional care;
  

Here is where home health gets dicey......

An RN or NP withdraws from a contractual relationship with a patient to provide home health, counseling, daily nursing care or another similar service and fails to provide sufficient notice to the patient.

• NYS Nursing:Practice Alerts & Guidelines:RN & LPN Practice Issues:FAQ
  

I am not a lawyer and I would seek the advice of a good employment attorney and contact my states board of nursing. What a bunch of schmucks....they obviously have trouble finding and keeping employees that they have to employ terrorist like tactics in an attempt to prevent someone from leaving.

I think you need to leave this company ASAP. Find some per diem stuff and give you notice and get another job ASAP......and ALWAYS be more careful what you sign when you are hired.

Let us knw how this all works out....I'm curious...Good luck!! :)

I just reviewed the above link and here is what it says about employer abandonment.

1. Could you please clarify a charge against a nurse for employer abandonment? Employer abandonment may occur if a nurse fails to give reasonable notice to the employer of her or his intent to terminate the employer-employee relationship or contract, under circumstances which seriously impair the delivery of professional care to patient or clients.
   Examples include:
   
   • The nurse walks off duty without notice to the employer-when the patient(s) is in need of immediate care and when this would seriously impair the delivery of professional care;
     
   • The nurse notifies the supervisor or other responsible party of the intent to leave immediately but does so without transferring her or his responsibilities and reporting to another nurse, when the patient(s) is in need of immediate care and when this would seriously impair the delivery of professional care.
     

[*]Can you provide examples of situations that may not necessarily be considered employer abandonment? The Education Department cannot interpret issues limited to employment and contract disputes. However, the following examples of employer abandonment, in which patient care is not seriously impaired, would probably not alone subject the nurse to disciplinary action by the Department:

• A licensed nurse completes her/his assigned shift and then notifies the employer that the employment relationship between the nurse and the employer is being ended immediately--other staff are available to provide nursing care;
  
• The nurse fails to return from a scheduled leave of absence;
  
• The employer-employee relationship is ended without providing the employer with a period of time to find a replacement;
  
• The nurse resigns but does not complete the notice period given.
  

Question is in Home health who is the contract with, the individual RN or the Homehealth company? When I worked in Homehealth in NYS I signed for the company not as an individual. I believe that is how it would be for most companies and were this would come into effect for a RN is if they are providing the care as a individual vs working for a company. I do not believe that you could be charged with patient abandonment if you quit without notice, but as others have stated you need to speak with a lawyer.

I would leave this company/facility as fast as I could and without notice. But I do like the idea of calling in sick for every shift. If this place is this bad the other facilities in the area know and will not hold it againist you for leaving without notice.

[AZMOMO2]

Well you can give 4 weeks notice. You'll get paid the full amount as long as you work 4 weeks. If they other company hires you just give them your start date, usually they work with you. That's what I did.

Make sure that notice is signed and you have a copy for your records showing the EXACT last date that you will be working.

[Patti_RN]

It sounds odd that your salary would be reduced to minimum wage. I'm really puzzled as to why an employer would do this, except to intimidate employees and try to retain them... not an effective policy, but possible. It's also possible there is a miscommunication. Possibly, it says that if you're in an orientation/ training period and you quit...? This would make some logical business sense. Assume your employer hires you, you attend their 8 week training program, at the rate of $25.00 per hour, and 7 weeks into the class, you quit. OK, your employer just lost an employee who was not only of no value to the organization, but who cost them $7,000 in training, and will now have to start another employee in that role, also paying them $25/hour to train. The employer can't refuse to pay you, at all (even though you were worthless to them) but they can say, "For those last 7 weeks, we'll pay you only minimum wage." Same follows that if you stayed only a month or so after your training was complete, the company probably still lost money on you.

Now of course, this isn't the situation you described, but it is one possible explanation.

You may be stuck with this... if this is really in your employee handbook (whether or not you signed it). Basically, people have the right to accept jobs, quit jobs and negotiate the terms of their employment. Employers have the same rights. Of course, if you have a contract, or are a member of a labor union, you're covered for such things as how much you're paid, how much vacation you receive, and terms of your retirement benefits, etc. If you don't like what's on offer, you don't have to take the job... if you don't like the terms (you want more vacation time this year) you renegotiate. It's all a matter of the employment market--shortage of nurses? you can demand more. Oversupply of nurses? you get less. Or, if they feel you're not as productive as you should be, they get rid of you and hire someone else. It's a free market system. If you give them two weeks notice and they want to reduce your wages to minimum, you tell them you won't be back tomorrow. 'Notice' is a courtesy, not an obligation. But, if you don't give fair notice, your employer will remember when you ask for a letter of reference for a new job. What is 'legal' isn't necessarily what is 'right' or 'fair' or 'reasonable'.

My advice is to talk to your boss or human resources department and get a straight answer. Be calm, polite and reasonable. Try to see their position and try to diplomatically find a solution that works.

[DixieRedHead, ASN, RN]

You could get your start date for the new job, work up util that time, and just go. HOWEVER it is never a good policy to burn bridges. Jobs are hard to come by. You have to make the decision. It might have far reaching consequences. Good luck.

[P51Mike1980]

Tell them to take a flying leap. MANY employers put this in their handbooks in order to scare employees when it comes time to quit. Unless you are a contract employee that has a contract stating you will work for said employer for a specific amount out time they cannot make you stay there for 4 weeks, NOR are they allowed to retaliate against you for leaving in less than four weeks. I don't know what state you're in, but this is how it works in California.