BSN Questions

RunBabyRN · Jun 24, 2014

The BSN is all about leadership and evidence-based practice. You have a whole class dedicated to research, one to leadership, and other theory-based elements that differ from ADN programs. I think that it's from this that part of this difference stems. Magnet status is starting to fall out of fashion, from what I've seen here, but I think that the principles of implementing more evidence-based practices and offering a good work environment spill over into quality patient care and improved outcomes.

Just my two cents. You can find some threads about this is the general nursing forum as well. :)

applesxoranges, BSN, RN · Jun 24, 2014

In my area, the BSN and ADN programs do not differ that much in curriculum. However, the hospitals still prefer BSNs because then they do not have to pay for the ADNs to go back to school. Some hospitals have also stopped paying for masters in nursing degrees because "the floor nurse does not need that degree to do his or her job."

Also, reputation of a school goes farther than the degree in my experiences. In order to be successful, you need to be well-rounded. I became an EMT and then a paramedic right before school started. I volunteered on a fire department and then became a paramedic in an ER. I had no issues getting job offers after graduation. Then when I quit my first nursing job, I had no issues finding a 2nd job.

pmabraham, BSN, RN · Jun 24, 2014

Good day RunBabyRN and applesxoranges:

Thank you both for responding. For BSN programs that require you take ___ (x) electives, is there any way to judge in advance between electives as to which ones will be more applicable in the field? I.e. several universities in my area include humanities in the required electives. If one had to choose between an art class and a philosophy class, would either one make a difference in patient outcome?

Please note I'm not trying to pick on BSN or a given school; I'm mainly trying to figure out what classes are better than others in terms of patient outcome... both required as part of the program (to pick a better BSN program) as well as required electives (which elective is better than another).

Thank you.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · Jun 24, 2014

In response to applesxoranges: there must be some difference in the ADN/BSN programs. Usually the State dictates minimum requirements and the BSN program has to abide by the same as ADN, but then will add more, like Leadership and Research and Statistics. To OP: I don't know how much you will get to choose as electives - better to check with the school about the degree plan to see what the requirements are.

VivaLaVespaGirl, BSN, MSN · Jun 24, 2014

pmabraham, when looking non-nursing specific classes such as humanities and literature, those classes specifically are not going to affect patient outcomes. What they do do, however, is affect your way of thinking and looking at the world. Your perspective is altered from what you specifically have lived and known, and augmented to include alternative ways of looking at people and situations. These classes help develop critical thinking, expand worldview and empathy, provide additional tools to interact with patients, peers, and people in leadership. That ability to think and relate differently is what leads to better patient outcomes. Choose classes that you are interested in - but also choose classes that you have had little or previous exposure to in the past. Expanding one's knowledge base beyond the technical, black and white thinking can only benefit you.

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 24, 2014

pmabraham, when looking non-nursing specific classes such as humanities and literature, those classes specifically are not going to affect patient outcomes. What they do do, however, is affect your way of thinking and looking at the world. etc. etc. etc.QUOTE]
I LOVE this post and believe it bears repeating. Don't try to pick your electives based on what will be most relevant to your job. You never know how your career will evolve and what general knowledge will be most helpful. When choosing your electives, follow your heart and use them to enrich your soul. Choose electives that make you smile and add to your appreciation and enjoyment of the world around you.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Jun 24, 2014

Don't want to create any dissension here, but it's impossible to porifice out exactly what educational factor is "the" thing that makes the difference between ADN & BSN. It would be like trying to see which part of an ice crystal is responsible for forming a snowflake.

There is a significant body of educational psychology literature on the effects of education... John Dewey (1938) first described "incidental learning". Kurt Lewin (1951) coupled this with field theory to describe the phenomenon of how behavior changes as a result of a person's interaction with their surroundings. Alfred Bandura's Social Learning Theory (1977) also added to this field. Basically, going through an educational process changes the way a person thinks and acts... as a result not only of the courses they have taken but also due to the actual experience of the learning itself.

The 'scholarly environment' - discussions, debate, exposure to diverse viewpoints, etc.- has an effect on the participants. BSN students are exposed to more of the 'process' than ADN students. The outcome is much more than simply a sum of the individual parts.

KRVRN, BSN, RN · Jun 24, 2014

I feel like you can sort of tell a difference between the two degrees with a fresh new grad. Past that short year or so, I can only tell by looking at their name tag. (And that's if it is even on there)

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jun 24, 2014

pmabraham, when looking non-nursing specific classes such as humanities and literature, those classes specifically are not going to affect patient outcomes. What they do do, however, is affect your way of thinking and looking at the world. Your perspective is altered from what you specifically have lived and known, and augmented to include alternative ways of looking at people and situations. These classes help develop critical thinking, expand worldview and empathy, provide additional tools to interact with patients, peers, and people in leadership. That ability to think and relate differently is what leads to better patient outcomes. Choose classes that you are interested in - but also choose classes that you have had little or previous exposure to in the past. Expanding one's knowledge base beyond the technical, black and white thinking can only benefit you.

This.

My specific courses for the Humanities requirement were Philosophy courses; it is a wonderful foundation; having a reason and a rationale to back up critical thinking, as well as "thinking like a nurse" is foundation to a nurse's practice, IMHO. :yes:

pmabraham, BSN, RN · Jun 25, 2014

Good day everyone:

Thank you for your advice. My preference is to pick classes which can benefit patient outcomes. While I truly enjoy the community college I'm attending, I tend to be an outlier from several perspectives: typically oldest or among the oldest in the class, typically among a handful of men (highest % of class with men was 17% men, 83% women), and typically in the The scandal of fiddled global warming data - Telegraph , The Washington Post verifies ‘the pause’ in global warming | Watts Up With That? , among many other articles show global warming is not real science), and other books go much further (in other secular viewpoints).

I'm most likely going to take the philosophy class down the road. I was able to get a syllabus in advance; and find it interesting I will have to write essays concerning abortion, euthanasia, and other areas I find extreme in relation to my faith in Jesus. Yes, I agree it will help me develop better thesis (not on those subjects, but in terms of how to think certain ways) which may help should I be able to pursue a MSN down the road. Will it put a smile on my face; no, chances are high it will be like today hearing various students bash Jesus before class while stating they hope they are not offending anyone.

Thank you.

P.S. I am in complete agreement on a BSN vs. AD only. My goal for the thread was to find out if there are any classes that may not be specified as part of a BSN that I could take to impact patient outcomes in a positive way.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jun 26, 2014

FYI, none of my classes "bashed" Jesus; my philosophy class was geared towards the various ranges of how political thought had a correlation to ethical thinking (or not); and my second philosophy class examined the ethical "common good".

I also had a university requirement of two Religion classes; I went to a Christian Brother college; we had to examine Religion without being a "witness" and examine some of the early texts of the bible academically, beyond what is deemed in a bible study class. These were also classes that helped with critical thinking and examining ethical issues, such as the letters to Corinth, for example.

Go in these subjects with an objective mind, and you will be amazed how it will make you think and examine what you think.