baby sleeping in same bed as parents

[SaderNurse05]

Someone who is related to me has a new baby. They mentioned by the way the baby has slept in their bed with them every night for his 8 week old life. I am worried they will accidently crush the baby, not mention a host of other issues. They basically told me this is what they want to do. I need help- what do my friends at All Nurses say?? Does this fall in the category of parental decisions and butt out?

Thanks in advance

Margaret

[KellNY, RN]

However, one concern I do have has not been addressed. What do people do when baby's old enough to start crawling? I'm afraid of him waking up before me/us and launching himself off the bed. I really don't want to be awoken by a thump and scream. I'd like to have him in our bed longer than the first few months, but I don't see how I can.

Go to the Dr. Sears page. Putting the matress on the floor is a great way to minimize this, as is pushing the bed up against the wall (make *sure* there is no gap between wall and matress--you can actually use one of those hard foam inserts if there is). As many have mentioned, a good "compromise" are those little side car things that sort of attach to your bed. :)

I coslept with my son (most nights till he was 2.5, then on and off til he was 3.5) and he has a very good understanding of personal space, boundaries and independence--no issues there. I plan on doing the same with my future kiddies.

Most babies in a healthy environment don't need their own space at 2, 3, 6mos.

SAFE cosleeping is no more dangerous than SAFE crib sleeping-in fact it's safer. Saying "We had one mom roll over onto her baby and it died" without the details (-was it a firm matress? Was there thick bedding/pillows? Did mom take even a benedryl that she's too ashamed/scared to fess up to?) is like saying "We had one baby that slept *gasp* in a crib, and the baby strangled itself" without mentioning that the cord for the blinds was left within reach. Babies in cribs have died of hypothermia, have been hurt by the bars of the cribs, have aspirated their own spit up or vomit, have been attacked by insects and animals, etc. All of which have either been the result of an unsafe situation (window left open, baby unsupervised, etc) or crap luck which could have happened to any baby, any where, in any situation. Some even could have been prevented if the baby had been cosleeping

The key--as others have drivin in--is to sleep SAFELY-whether in a crip or in bed. Make an INFORMED decision.

Dutch-I think there is some confusion here as to what an opinion is. When someone--an RN--says "Cosleeping is d.a.n.g.e.r.o.u.s." it takes it beyond "That's my opinion!" because that is a statement that should be able to have factual backing behind it.

I could say "HIV can be cured by having sex with a virgin" and then get offended when people (rightfully) claim that I am wrong. It's not an opinion, it's an incorrect, misinformed statement. (FTR-I didnt make that up-people actually believe that)

You didn't say "Cosleeping is something I wouldn't feel safe or comfortable doing or endorsing"-that would have been a valid opinion, and I can't imagine anyone giving you any grief over it. You stated something that has been proven wrong and were called on it. Sorry.

[NurseyBaby'05, BSN, RN]

Go to the Dr. Sears page. Putting the matress on the floor is a great way to minimize this, as is pushing the bed up against the wall (make *sure* there is no gap between wall and matress--you can actually use one of those hard foam inserts if there is). As many have mentioned, a good "compromise" are those little side car things that sort of attach to your bed. :)

I have a co-sleeper, but that will do me no good when he starts creeping about. Even if he's against the wall, he could still crawl out via the foot of the bed. I'm not so worried about when he's just rolling over, but more when he's actually mobile. Our bed is pretty low to begin with, so we'll just have to see how things go. I'm thinking he'll be spending more time in his crib at that point. He won't be awake as much through the night as he will as a small infant. I'm flexible. Maybe he'll take after his father and have no sense of adventure, but I'm thinking I'm probably doomed to have one just like me. :imbar

[justme1972]

I was told that the debate about laying a baby on it's stomach to prevent it from choking on it's vomit has been debunked... Apparently if a child were to be lying tummy down and their face turned to the side... any vomit could potentially stay within the oral cavity and block the airflow... However if they are lying on their backs... and vomit... it is most likely that they would cough it out...

Does that make sense...

I googled a Q & A about sleeping on the tummy and choking on vomit... here is a piece of it

Q: Won't my baby choke on spit-up or vomit during sleep if placed on its back?

A: Many parents place babies on their stomachs to sleep because they think it prevents them from choking on spit-up or vomit during sleep. But studies in countries where there has been a switch from babies sleeping predominantly on their stomachs to sleeping mainly on their backs have not found any evidence of increased incidence of aspiration, pneumonia, choking, or other problems. In addition, the AAP has reviewed all the scientific literature and found that there is no additional risk of choking on vomit when babies sleep on their backs. Experts actually feel that babies are at a higher risk for choking or aspirating when placed on their tummies than they are when placed on their back.

http://www.firstcandle.org/expectantparents/exp_reduce_qa.html

Hope that helps anyone worried about that part of it....

I asked this SAME question when my twins were in the hospital b/c when I was young, it was the tummy, and now, they teach putting them on their backs.

I'm sure this isn't a "newsflash"...I saw that babies, even fresh newborns, turn their heads when they spit up and it flows out of their mouths.

I believe that this is a reflex.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

You stated something that has been proven wrong and were called on it. Sorry.

No, don't be sorry. I haven't been proven wrong. Others agree with my point of view. I haven't been called on anything. Stating that I have been "proven" wrong is a blanket statement and not an opinion. That works two ways.

Laying a child in a basinette next to the bed is not going to be responsible for a SIDS death no more than sleeping with your child is going to cause a true SIDS death.

Deaths that occur due to co-sleeping are listed as accidental and are the result of the infant being in the parents bed whether it be due to suffocation, getting trapped between the bed and wall or falling off of the bed. I'm talking about accidental deaths. If a child, God forbid, dies of SIDS the parents are devastated wether or not they were sleeping with the child. SIDS is not listed as an accidental death.

[crissrn27, RN]

Two things I have to mention, accidental deaths happen in cribs too. blinds to close, ect. The key is to have a safe sleeping enviroment, be it crib or adult bed. I think the majority of posters are following the rules of cosleeping, probably not the case with all cosleepers. Just as all parents that use cribs do not put their babies to sleep safely. I have seen many cribs by open windows, blinds too near, etc. People should have a right to know how to put their babies to sleep safely, in a crib or bed. Second, now I am by no means saying this is common, the back to sleep program has really reduced sids rates, but I have found a couple of babies in the nursery, formula/mucus/breasmilk still in their mouth and had to suction and bag them. Just had to mention that, how many miss being able to do side to sleep?

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

People should have a right to know how to put their babies to sleep safely, in a crib or bed.

Words of wisdom. Thanks. :nuke:

[luvmy3kids]

What is harsh about saying we have to drive? I have to drive. I am a HH nurse. If I don't drive, I don't get a paycheck or medical insurance.

Everyone knows babies don't just die co-sleeping just as they can and do die alone in their cribs. I repeat that everyone should make their own decision and I have my own opinion. I'm not an authority on the subject but I do have an opinion. Just a thought.

Nothing is harsh about having to drive. I meant your whole post was harsh. Everyone may know that babies don't just die co-sleeping, however.... your exact words were

"Babie's die co-sleeping, Adults don't die co-sleeping" That to me sounds a bit harsh.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

. People should have a right to know how to put their babies to sleep safely, in a crib or bed.

Which is all we are saying.

Dutch - those examples you posted are examples of unsafe co-sleeping:

"suffocation, getting trapped between the bed and wall or falling off of the bed."

And you are actually making a blanket judgment when you say co-sleeing is dangerous and babies die. You are leaving out a huge part of the story and that is the we CAN sleep with our babies safely if we follow the rules.

NurseyBaby = there comes a time in a crib where babies figure out how to climb out and the risk of falling is worrisome. All my kids figured out how to get out of a crib fairly early on.

We lowered our bed to the floor. Kept the bedroom door closed. Seems like our kids like to stay cuddled next to mommy and milk.

steph

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Nothing is harsh about having to drive. I meant your whole post was harsh. Everyone may know that babies don't just die co-sleeping, however.... your exact words were

"Babie's die co-sleeping, Adults don't die co-sleeping" That to me sounds a bit harsh.

I agree . . . . babies can die if placed unsafely in a bed with parents. If the parents are intoxicated. If they sleep in a waterbed. I'm not going to re-hash ALL the things you should not do as we've all hopefully read the safe co-sleeping rules.

"Co-sleeping" doesn't kill babies . . . . . being unsafe might.

steph

[queenjean]

I occasionally teach childbirth classes, and we address the co-sleeping.

I always state that the AAP recommends against it; but I also go on to discuss safe sleeping habits in all environments: cosleeping, infant in bassinet, infant in crib.

It comes down to the fact that all of us have some type of critical thinking skills, and we can all weigh the pros and cons, risks and benefits of a situation, and then decide what works best for our family. We still very much allow parents to make parenting decisions, even if they aren't in line with what we as medical practitioners feel is healthy.

I personally did not initially cosleep with my first daughter, until I found her very sick in her bed one morning. She was coated in dried vomit, had an extremely high fever, and was very very ill, too ill to cry. That decided it for me. We safely coslept for many years, even with a newborn. Best sleep I got as a parent.

I was well aware of the risks, and weighed the pros and cons. And I was (and am) prepared to accept responsibility for my decisions. Just like every other dang parenting decision.

I mean, we could have this discussion about everything: circumcision, breastfeeding vs bottle feeding, SAH vs WOH mothers, homeschool vs public school vs private school, TV vs no TV households, organic vs standard American diet for our children, on and on and on.

I think it is very important to be respectful of parents. Providing educational opportunities is of course a nursing role. We do carry some responsibility in ensuring that a parent has access to information to help them make their decisions. But let's assume that most parents are capable of weighing pros and cons and of making intelligent decisions on their own, shall we? I expect that respect when I make decisions regarding my children, I am sure that we all would like to be afforded that same respect.

[AmericanChai]

I had two reflux babies. One night when my first baby was a tiny newborn I woke up by some mommy instinct to find her in the bassinet next to our bed, mouth open full of vomit. She was too little to turn her head or roll over. I scooped her up, turned her over and pounded her back. She coughed and then cried. That really scared me. I took her to bed with me and she had a few more of those episodes but her kicking and movement woke me up. I also kept her on her side from then on. She stayed in our bed until she was 3. My husband is from India and everyone does co-sleeping with their babies there traditionally. We actually put our mattress on the floor for awhile to protect her from falling off.

My second baby had reflux so bad she ended up on a feeding tube and slow feeding pump. Because she needed to be elevated I had to put her in a crib but she was right next to our bed. I could reach out and touch her. The Ped GI actually said to have her sleep on her tummy, it was safer for her until she was old enough to roll over and help herself if she choked. ON my support board there was actually a baby who choked on his own vomit and died in his crib in the other room because of reflux.

When my second was 3 mos old and again at 8 mos old she was hospitalized for reflux related problems. I was allowed to cosleep with her both times in the hospital. I was asked to sign a waiver but they were supportive of me doing it.

Babies are most at risk for smothering if their parents have sleeping pills or are intoxicated. Otherwise sleeping with your infant is a very natural thing-- I doubt the first nomads put their babies in cribs or hammocks to sleep!

[TDub, MSN, EdD]

You know what? In 21 years as a nurse, opinion has swayed back and forth many times from one extreme to another. When I started we never gave women anything to eat in labour and never gave then D5 IV, always put infants on their stomachs to sleep and got them on a feeding schedule ASAP becuase, everyone knew, it COULD KILL THEM if you didn't (joke emphasis mine) Nowadays, it's the exact opposite.

Practices will change along with the studies supporting them. Look back at the cigarette ads in the 30's and 40's. MDs promoted cigarettes as a way to soothe your throat and lungs. Now they cause cancer. Some people still use them to keep their weight down, something society harps on day and night.

Do what feels right to you. I personally think cosleeping is a good idea. It seems to help ward off SIDS, http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDSFactSheet.htm#SIDSgraph (International Childcare Practices study) gives mom more sleep and makes it a little easier to breastfeed. The same reflex that keeps you from rolling out of a strange bed keeps you from rolling over on an infant. So, if you're dead drunk, stoned or otherwise impaired, don't sleep with a baby.

I don't think we have all the answers. We are something like 35th, 45th in the world in infant mortality. That's a damn shame. Nothing against Cuba, but they are ahead of us on some rankings. Yeesh!