We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
When it comes to HCWs denying EBP they should be prepared to be judged or leave the healthcare setting, because what these type of people are advocating is a public health disaster based on no scientific evidence.
This "I believe" methodology has no place in developing public health policies or advocating against vaccines, if you have real peer-reviewed scientific research present it, and don't try to lie about the conclusions of a study that most people on here are going to pull up and look at themselves.
I highly doubt we would see a disaster. These diseases are rare. Take Ebola for instance, it came here to the US and now boom, it's gone. Not that many got infected....because of precautions and better sanitation. If everyone were to stop being vaccinated, I really wonder if we would even see a large scale disease outbreak. As was said before, the rates of the diseases we vaccinate against were in decline when the vaccines came out. What we should be worrying about are superbugs and the overuse of antibiotics. Will our antibiotics even work in 10 or 20 years? That's much more scary don't you think? But we continue to feed antibiotics to livestock, the live stock most people eat unless you can afford organic and grass-fed. Also, it's in the water supply. Then doctors prescribe them to patient's for a little sniffle. Most illnesses are caused by viruses, which we all know antibiotics won't help.
Exactly. So why get the flu shot if you can prevent yourself and others from getting it by washing your hands?
Does the vaccine give a false sense that the vaccinated cannot spread it? Handwashing isn't always performed. I've been a witness.
Let's see if we can explain things in a very simple way, since that is apparently what's necessary here.
Pick up flu virus off a surface, then wash hands before touching face or anything else=no flu infection.
Wash hands compulsively, sit next to an asymptomatic but infectious individual who sneezes or coughs in your vicinity=an exposed and a now vulnerable individual with very clean hands. Ta Da!
I don't believe in herd immunity. I think it's a ridiculous way to force others into getting vaccinated.
Oh, but I feels and I thinks!
Herd immunity is not part of a belief system. It is established fact one only needs an elementary math education to understand. But dishonest people will try to make this seem like this is something that one can "believe in" or not, like whether there is a God or if dead people can communicate with the living.
Well it could be fact if someone wanted to fund a study to show it. The reason they think this is because of the increase in autoimmune and other health problems that were not seen until kids started getting 40+ shots in their youth.
It doesn't matter who has funded the studies, they have all been consistent, internationally.
Again, you used think. Just because some people that don't understand science choose to think that because AI and other health problems have increased as vaccination rates increased that must be the cause doesn't make it fact. As I have said previously, organic food sales have drastically increased int he past 40+ years, maybe that is responsible. Or use of the internet?
I doubt those numbers. Also, you're right, our diet is junk, that's why many processed foods have to have vitamins and minerals added to it. But still, sanitation is way better.
You doubt the numbers based on what? Or do you just believe it isn't true? That is hard data from the WHO. It is one example; there is lots of this data readily available.
Proper sanitation and a healthy diet helps reduce many chronic and transmissible illness. You know what works even better? Vaccines.
Wrong. The media is scaring people and telling everyone to get a booster. Science when funded by the gov is not always trustworthy in my opinion. As I stated before data can be skewed.
Yet all the "evidence" you have presented has been radical media outlets not a single bit of science.
Yes, international multi-governmental conspiracy is the logical explanation.
Sure, where is you evidence the data is skewed? That should be easy identify and publish on if data was simply skewed. Links?
I don't believe in herd immunity. I think it's a ridiculous way to force others into getting vaccinated.
I don't think you even understand it. It is basic math and very hard to argue. If you introduce 1 infected person into 100 non-infected susceptible people and that person, on average, infects 10 people before they are well again, it is very easy to calculate how that disease will spread. It's basic math.
The flu won't kill me because flu deaths are inflated. I'm not scared of the flu. I haven't been sick in years. I do the simple basic things....eat right, exercise, wash my hands, wash my hands before I eat, touch my face, and when I come home from anywhere, it's the first thing I do.
You think flu deaths are inflated. Even if they are that implies that at least some are legitimate. HOw do you know that today, tomorrow, or in 40 years, or if you develop cancer down the road you won't be one of those true cases. What about your patients? Are you sure they won't be one?
Let's see if we can explain things in a very simple way, since that is apparently what's necessary here.
Pick up flu virus off a surface, then wash hands before touching face or anything else=no flu infection.
Wash hands compulsively, sit next to an asymptomatic but infectious individual who sneezes or coughs in your vicinity=an exposed and a now vulnerable individual with very clean hands. Ta Da!
It's like someone never learned that most basic chain of infection they teach the first week of nursing school.......
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
This "it can't happen here" blindness is unbelievable!
I don't wish ill to anyone, but imagine the scrambling for reasons and justification, not to mention possible 'natural' cures, when those who live a totally healthful lifestyle and assume themselves to have superior immune systems because of their adherence to same, one day run up on the brick wall of some preventable disease.
I would venture to guess that their denial would be just as stout regardless.
Red K- your above post set off a song in my head: "Chain, chain, chain, chain of fools...."
I have already covered this about that systematic review from the Cochrane database. 1. It did not say that flu vaccines had no benefit. That is a lie. It stated that based on their review no recommendation on routine flu vaccines could be made.
The Cochrane review is incomplete, because it only considered RCTs. The majority of the research on the flu vaccines is obtained through retrospective analysis in the most part d/t the fact it is would be considered unethical to willfully experiment on people when the flu vaccine has been shown to reduce overall mortality rates and significant complications such as pneumonia.
"Types of studies
Any randomised controlled trial (RCT) or quasi-RCT comparing influenza vaccines in humans with placebo or no intervention or comparing types, doses or schedules of influenza vaccine. Only studies assessing protection from exposure to naturally occurring influenza were considered."
There is no doubt that there should be a better flu vaccine and various companies/researchers are working on it.
Also, implying that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases is a lie.
It would also be nice for once if you actually did your own research and not rely on faux-medical websites to draw conclusions from. That is why I would rather read the actual studies or the systematic review of several studies to draw my own conclusions from. How are you ever going to develop your own opinion if you always refuse to look at the scientific literature yourself?
Also, I wouldn't say that vaccines and autoimmune issues could have a link is a lie. It's possible. It's also possible that vaccines do cause other health problems and maybe even contribute to cancer, but we don't know for sure do we? Have studies been done? I don't know. I doubt it. Most studies are trying to show how safe it is.
Also, I wouldn't say that vaccines and autoimmune issues could have a link is a lie. It's possible. It's also possible that vaccines do cause other health problems and maybe even contribute to cancer, but we don't know for sure do we? Have studies been done? I don't know. I doubt it. Most studies are trying to show how safe it is.
It's possible that aliens are planning to attack this planet and that we'll have to unite the world to fight back on July 4th......
Farawyn
12,646 Posts
Yea, okay. I'm done. Another one bites the dust.