We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
Quote by Klone You may be shocked to learn (then again, perhaps not) that I used to be a part of that far fringe of anti-medical establishment, crunchy granola earth-mother hippie scene before I became a nurse. I still have a lot of those beliefs (such as breastfeeding until middle school and cosleeping until college - joking!). And I still have some remembrance of the thought process of the time. I can relate to "those people" even if I no longer agree with or believe most of what they believe.
I wanted to quote you too. I also was one of those breastfeeding-in-toddlerhood moms and we were a safe co-sleeping family.
My daughter was in the pre-teen years when Gardasil first came out and I admit I was concerned about the safety because, yes, there were all those scary internet stories. But I did my research before making my decision. I have no qualms about that vaccine now.
My background is ER and L&D in a small rural hospital. I work hospice and as a school nurse now. I'm in the middle of the vaccine hysteria as the school nurse trying to get folks to truly understand why vaccines are safe and necessary. I truly appreciate threads like this and the FB page Refutations to Anti-vaccine Meme's because of all the great links to REAL research. This thread has been sent to RAVM and to Nurses Who Vaccinate because I think it shows people (anecdotally) that AN is full of nurses who believe in the efficacy of vaccines.
I try to be fair to the other side and click on links . .. but when I see myths pop up - myths that have been thoroughly debunked - I simply can't go on.
That's why I simply can't go watch Bought . .although I have to give credit where credit is due to our AN member who is watching it and debunking it.
Many feel like the vaccine schedule is just too much on a young child's immune system.
Exactly, they "feel". The science proves that this "feeling" is just a feeling and is not actually fact.
Much of what we vaccinate against is prevalent in third world countries where sanitation and access to healthy foods are not available.
Why do you think much of what we vaccinate for here in the US is prevalent in 3rd world countries? Maybe because they don't have the vaccines? No, must be the lack of healthy foods
that was responsible for 154,000 deaths of kids under 5 from measles in third world countries in 2008. Never mind the fact that our diet here in the US isn't exactly the healthiest.
I'm not worried about the flu or measles, and I won't allow the media to scare me into getting vaccinated.
Actually, you won't let science scare you into it. You are letting the media convince you that you don't need it.
I get that the vaccinated fear those who are not vaccinated, but think about it.
It's called herd immunity, see below. The people that are really scared are the people with compromised immune systems that can't be effectively vaccinated and are at high risk from complication/death from a disease you pass to them because you "aren't worried about it".
I believe it to be like a placebo effect. There are probably many walking around, assuming since they were vaccinated as children, they are safe. It's a false sense of security. No one really knows if they are protected unless a titer is drawn.
It doesn't matter if everyone is protected provided the critical immunization threshold is met; a disease won't spread. This is basic epidemiology and simple math.
I'm completely healthy and have an immune system that works top notch. I'm not going to chance that by accepting a flu vac. I can envision if I did...I would end up with some autoimmune issue.
You are? How do you know? Have you had your "immune system" checked? What is you weren't? What is a case of the flu would kill you, would you worry about it then? What if a case of the flu will kill your patient?
Again, like you feel, you can also envision getting some AI issue. Sounds really "sciency".
The flu vaccine is the same. I think it gives nurses a false sense of security thinking they can't spread it. If germs like viruses live on surfaces, that vaccinated nurse could just as well pick it up and transfer it to the patient. Not only that, it's not even that effective....studies have shown.Alliance for Human Research Protection - Cochrane Collaboration: Flu Vaccines of No Benefit It's actually sickening each year to listen to the big push for everyone to get their flu shot. Just a decade ago, it was recommended for ages 65+. Then they decided to broaden the market and tell the entire population to get vaccinated against the flu. It's crazy! I'm completely healthy and have an immune system that works top notch. I'm not going to chance that by accepting a flu vac. I can envision if I did...I would end up with some autoimmune issue. No thanks. I have only had influenza maybe two times in my almost 4 decades on this earth.
I have already covered this about that systematic review from the Cochrane database. 1. It did not say that flu vaccines had no benefit. That is a lie. It stated that based on their review no recommendation on routine flu vaccines could be made.
The Cochrane review is incomplete, because it only considered RCTs. The majority of the research on the flu vaccines is obtained through retrospective analysis in the most part d/t the fact it would be considered unethical to willfully experiment on people when the flu vaccine has been shown to reduce overall mortality rates and significant complications such as pneumonia.
"Types of studies
Any randomised controlled trial (RCT) or quasi-RCT comparing influenza vaccines in humans with placebo or no intervention or comparing types, doses or schedules of influenza vaccine. Only studies assessing protection from exposure to naturally occurring influenza were considered."
There is no doubt that there should be a better flu vaccine and various companies/researchers are working on it.
Also, implying that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases is a lie.
It would also be nice for once if you actually did your own research and not rely on faux-medical websites to draw conclusions from. That is why I would rather read the actual studies or the systematic review of several studies to draw my own conclusions from. How are you ever going to develop your own opinion if you always refuse to look at the scientific literature yourself?
Exactly. So why get the flu shot if you can prevent yourself and others from getting it by washing your hands?
Does the vaccine give a false sense that the vaccinated cannot spread it? Handwashing isn't always performed. I've been a witness.
It is called a mulit-modal treatment/prevention plan. Good hygiene/washing hands, aseptic technique, masks, and flu vaccines have all been shown to reduce infections. All these things together give the best indicators of reducing flu transmission in the health care institutions.
You are right it is open ended just like we should all be....stop judging others is what I am trying to say!
When it comes to HCWs denying EBP they should be prepared to be judged or leave the healthcare setting, because what these type of people are advocating is a public health disaster based on no scientific evidence.
This "I believe" methodology has no place in developing public health policies or advocating against vaccines, if you have real peer-reviewed scientific research present it, and don't try to lie about the conclusions of a study that most people on here are going to pull up and look at themselves.
Exactly, they "feel". The science proves that this "feeling" is just a feeling and is not actually fact.
Well it could be fact if someone wanted to fund a study to show it. The reason they think this is because of the increase in autoimmune and other health problems that were not seen until kids started getting 40+ shots in their youth.
Why do you think much of what we vaccinate for here in the US is prevalent in 3rd world countries? Maybe because they don't have the vaccines? No, must be the lack of healthy foods
that was responsible for 154,000 deaths of kids under 5 from measles in third world countries in 2008. Never mind the fact that our diet here in the US isn't exactly the healthiest.
I doubt those numbers. Also, you're right, our diet is junk, that's why many processed foods have to have vitamins and minerals added to it. But still, sanitation is way better.
Actually, you won't let science scare you into it. You are letting the media convince you that you don't need it.
Wrong. The media is scaring people and telling everyone to get a booster. Science when funded by the gov is not always trustworthy in my opinion. As I stated before data can be skewed.
It's called herd immunity, see below. The people that are really scared are the people with compromised immune systems that can't be effectively vaccinated and are at high risk from complication/death from a disease you pass to them because you "aren't worried about it".
I don't believe in herd immunity. I think it's a ridiculous way to force others into getting vaccinated.
You are? How do you know? Have you had your "immune system" checked? What is you weren't? What is a case of the flu would kill you, would you worry about it then? What if a case of the flu will kill your patient?
The flu won't kill me because flu deaths are inflated. I'm not scared of the flu. I haven't been sick in years. I do the simple basic things....eat right, exercise, wash my hands, wash my hands before I eat, touch my face, and when I come home from anywhere, it's the first thing I do.
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
I wanted to quote you too. I also was one of those breastfeeding-in-toddlerhood moms and we were a safe co-sleeping family.
My daughter was in the pre-teen years when Gardasil first came out and I admit I was concerned about the safety because, yes, there were all those scary internet stories. But I did my research before making my decision. I have no qualms about that vaccine now.
My background is ER and L&D in a small rural hospital. I work hospice and as a school nurse now. I'm in the middle of the vaccine hysteria as the school nurse trying to get folks to truly understand why vaccines are safe and necessary. I truly appreciate threads like this and the FB page Refutations to Anti-vaccine Meme's because of all the great links to REAL research. This thread has been sent to RAVM and to Nurses Who Vaccinate because I think it shows people (anecdotally) that AN is full of nurses who believe in the efficacy of vaccines.
I try to be fair to the other side and click on links . .. but when I see myths pop up - myths that have been thoroughly debunked - I simply can't go on.
That's why I simply can't go watch Bought . .although I have to give credit where credit is due to our AN member who is watching it and debunking it.