ADN vs BSN Nurses' Competency

[StudentNurseMNUS]

Hello everyone,

Based on your experiences, do you think ADN nurses are just as competent as BSN nurses straight out of nursing school? I'm attending a four year university to attain my BSN degree and have taken various challenging courses, a majority of which I had to successfully pass to even get into the program. However, my friend attended a local community college to get an ADN and often boasts to me of how easy his prerequisite courses were, since he took them online, and how easy nursing school was since the professors he had were not as rigorous as the ones I currently have. He passed his NCLEX and has been working in a telemetry unit for 5 months now. So is a BSN degree just a longer degree because it is filled with humanities courses and "busy work" nursing courses rather than just the essentials? Is a BSN degree over-preparing students or is the ADN degree not demanding enough? Should ADN nurses even have the same scope of practice as BSN nurses?

[Nurse Magnolia, BSN, RN]

I've read this thread with interest. As someone who has 3 bachelor's degrees now, let me tell you, a bachelors degree in and of itself is not a golden ticket.

I am a second (third?) career nurse and I've only been a nurse for a year. I graduated from a diploma school (one of the few areas of the country where they are thriving) with a 3.87 GPA and with more clinical hours in my 19 month program than the local highly ranked BSN programs have in their FOUR years. I passed the NCLEX in 75 questions 6 days after graduating. Does it mean I wasn't prepared because I didn't earn the BSN? Well...within the last year I did the RN-BSN online and my employer paid for it 100%. I didn't want to get it. It was my third bachelor's degree, but since my employer was paying for it and I figured it might come in handy someday, I did it. Because of my other degrees, I only had to take 8 nursing classes and I completed it in mere months. Did it make me a better nurse? No way. It was a waste of time for a bedside nurse and I earn about .50 cents more per hour for having it. I did learn how to format APA papers REALLY well though. Because that's a nursing skill that's needed bedside.

Anyhoo - just chiming in to say that it doesn't matter. We all take the same NCLEX and when you are working there will be no difference between the diploma or ASN grad and the BSN grad (except, probably, student debt). If you go into your job with a BSN and a superiority complex, they will eat you alive. Everyone is on the same team. My employer actually preferred the diploma grads to the other programs because we had so much more floor experience, we were better able to hit the ground running.

I'm still glad I did the BSN. It's helping me with my current job search to a different specialty. But I STILL won't make more money for having it. They just want to see me have it. It's a game. You play it or you don't.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, LovingLife123 said:

First of all, it’s an ASN. An Associates In SCIENCE. 

Actually, ADN is used as a catch all. There are associates in science degrees and associates in applied science or AAS degrees.

[Nurselexii]

Oh hunny its the same, if possible if you can get your BSN (I know pricey ? ) just because more and more jobs are requiring it, but depending on where you live and your life situation get the ADN get the job and make the hospital pay for the BSN. And after 5 years you’ll have so many credentials youll be swimming in titles ?

[BSN-to-MSN, ADN, BSN, RN]

Attaining ADN first is cheaper than going straight to BSN. My employer is now reimbursing me more than half of the tuition.

A fellow RN on the floor has 70 grand student debt, I have zero.

Please, do not insult ADNs with your "scope of practice " BS.

[Nurselexii]

8 hours ago, StudentNurseMNUS said:

I completely agree with your comment. I do not understand why ADN degrees are even still in place, the standard should be a BSN degree in my opinion. Community college courses are in not in any form as difficult or challenging as the courses offered in a four year university. I also find comfort in knowing I will be graduating feeling more prepared thanks to all the hard I have put into obtaining my four year degree rather than just a two year one.

Well, I see where your coming from, especially as a student, it seems that a 4 year program must prepare you more than a community college. But really the NCLEX requires any nurse to be to have a set amount of clinical hours to be licensed, so the CC and the 4 year share the same state mandate in the core nursing program, in lamens terms, think of the BSN programs as just more liberal arts and electives to complete the degree, The real education in your nursing career is when you start working, but no harm in getting that BSN right away if you can ?

[LovingLife123]

5 hours ago, Rose_Queen said:

Actually, ADN is used as a catch all. There are associates in science degrees and associates in applied science or AAS degrees.

I know that. I still graduated with my ASN degree.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

Well that took until what, page 2 maybe for the arguments to start. How predictable. There are advantages and disadvantages for whatever degree path a nursing student decides on.

The decision on which degree to pursue could be related to money, I can confidently say that an ADN acquired at a community college will be a lot less expensive than the BSN at a 4 year university. For students paying for some or all of school out of pocket the ADN makes more sense. The BSN is still within reach by completing a bridge program which with reputable and reasonably priced online programs is not as difficult to manage as it used to be. Also to consider is many employers offer tuition assistance so that can also relieve some of the financial burden of completing the BSN.

The decision on which program to attend can also be based on the ability of the prospective student to be accepted without a long wait. Some programs have a either a long wait list or a lottery system to get in, even with a stellar transcript and high TEAS there's no guarantee of immediate entry. If getting that degree can be done faster by attending a different school why wouldn't that be considered a viable option?

Another strictly degree availability argument for those that seem to think the BSN is the only reputable degree is where exactly do you expect all those nurses to get that degree? I can't speak to everywhere in the country obviously but I can say in my region at least there are four ADN programs that graduate students twice a year and only one BSN program with an annual graduation. That's a lot more students obtaining the ADN than a BSN just based on the local degree availability. There's simply not enough room or money for traditional four year universities to expand their BSN programs enough to absorb all those students. Without the ADN as an option the nursing shortage would indeed be become a very real thing.

Then there are regional requirements to consider. There are some areas with a high enough population density of nurses where nursing is highly competitive and hospitals can and do require a BSN as a standard. There are also areas where the nursing shortage is real and any qualified nurse, that is any nurse that passes the same NCLEX we all take is able to easily find employment.

[rzyzzy]

3 hours ago, kbrn2002 said:

There are some areas with a high enough population density of nurses where nursing is highly competitive and hospitals can and do require a BSN as a standard. There are also areas where the nursing shortage is real and any qualified nurse, that is any nurse that passes the same NCLEX we all take is able to easily find employment.

Not to pick nits, but one of my biggest pet questions is-

When did nurse start equaling hospital?

yeah, I mean we see nurses in hospitals a lot on tv - but as hospital “systems” swallow each other and right-size and get all “mega-corporate” in nature (and sometimes even collude to depress nurse wages!)

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/legal-regulatory-issues/3-texas-health-systems-settle-lawsuit-alleging-they-colluded-to-stifle-nurse-pay.html

Why, exactly - are they seen as the destination job? What have they done to earn that mystique?

[2BS Nurse, BSN]

Oh geeze, here we go again! I did the ADN initially because it saved me a TON of money. My employer payed for the entire BSN completion. I'm working the same job as another RN who has been paying on her student loans for 10 years. In my area of the country, there is no pay scale difference between degrees. ADNs are required to complete their BSN within 5 years. My BSN program was easier than the ADN because it was all review of what I had already learned!

[SineQuaNon, MSN, RN, NP]

On 5/5/2020 at 12:19 PM, StudentNurseMNUS said:

I completely agree with your comment. I do not understand why ADN degrees are even still in place, the standard should be a BSN degree in my opinion. Community college courses are in not in any form as difficult or challenging as the courses offered in a four year university. I also find comfort in knowing I will be graduating feeling more prepared thanks to all the hard I have put into obtaining my four year degree rather than just a two year one.

The reality is that with all the prerequisites an ADN degree is essentially a BSN missing a few theory courses. I had a bachelor's in another field and entered a direct entry MSN program. The first 15 months were spent getting my RN, the next 15 getting my MSN. I essentially got a certificate RN and with my bachelor's made me eligible for my MSN. To be eligible for the program I had to take two years of prerequisites, just like ADNs do. They don't start the program from 0. In a BSN program all your prerequisites are included under the banner of the BSN. The reality is an ADN nurse spends 4 years in school for a 2 year degree. There is no practical difference at all.

And the idea that statistics in a 2 year college is easier than stats at a four year college is laughable. Usually they are taught with the same book from the same curriculum. But if you want to feel superior, by all means go ahead. Someday some ADN nurse is going to save your hide with her knowledge.

I do agree that they should eliminate the ADN, but only because you spend 4 years getting it and it is essentially equal to the BSN.

[chare]

6 minutes ago, SineQuaNon said:

[...]

I do agree that they should eliminate the ADN, but only because you spend 4 years getting it and it is essentially equal to the BSN.

I've said this for years, thank you for naming the elephant in the room.

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

I found more clinical time was the best program choice for me, but there are certainly people that need more writing skills/research practice and pick up the clinical stuff like protégés.

I did both programs, one didn't have a thing to do with clinical nursing, but would be great for other nursing roles. IMO just asking the question splits the profession, and makes a huge dumpster fire.

Maybe we could talk about what parts of each program were most helpful? My Family Nursing course would be a great idea in theory, but in practice it was so whitebread and generalized it didn't add a thing to my knowledge.