ADN vs BSN Nurses' Competency

[StudentNurseMNUS]

Hello everyone,

Based on your experiences, do you think ADN nurses are just as competent as BSN nurses straight out of nursing school? I'm attending a four year university to attain my BSN degree and have taken various challenging courses, a majority of which I had to successfully pass to even get into the program. However, my friend attended a local community college to get an ADN and often boasts to me of how easy his prerequisite courses were, since he took them online, and how easy nursing school was since the professors he had were not as rigorous as the ones I currently have. He passed his NCLEX and has been working in a telemetry unit for 5 months now. So is a BSN degree just a longer degree because it is filled with humanities courses and "busy work" nursing courses rather than just the essentials? Is a BSN degree over-preparing students or is the ADN degree not demanding enough? Should ADN nurses even have the same scope of practice as BSN nurses?

[NotMyProblem MSN, ASN, BSN, MSN, LPN, RN]

As a former LPN who now holds an ASN and BSN degree, my point of view is this: the nurse who'd just as well eliminate all with lesser education and/or degrees from the workforce had better be prepared to do all the work themselves.?

[Uroboros, APRN]

20 minutes ago, Elaine M said:

LOL. After more than three decades in nursing I'm pretty sure this person has managed to do more than survive. Come back to us when you have 30+ years. And let's get out of the "nurses are saints" mindset and call it what it is, it's a gig. Nurses are no nicer or holier or better than anyone else in any other job.

I find this mindset interesting to say the least as well. So you were around to wear a paper hat, stand in salute while holding the physician's ash tray thirty years ago, and that somehow gives you precedence past? Really it's a lack of understanding your personal meaning, and the intrinsic value assigned to a profession. And that understanding comes through higher education. Experience over time (and I have quite the resume as well dear) has nothing standardized about it, and that's dangerous ground to stand on. Very slippery to say the least. More often means you've simply made the same mistakes longer. We call it the ostrich effect in clinical psychology. Try that defense with your friendly BON, or for starters, with your next speeding ticket.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

A gentle reminder:

Quote

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[Wuzzie]

16 minutes ago, Uroboros said:

So you were around to wear a paper hat, stand in salute while holding the physician's ash tray thirty years ago, and that somehow gives you precedence past?

You watch too many movies. And FTR do you really think my education stopped when I graduated nursing school? That’s a giant assumption on your part. And a wrong one. My head is quite sand-free thank you. I’m really quite intrigued why you feel it is necessary to throw insults at me. Have I insulted you? Your nursing ability? Does it make you feel important? Would a Snickers help?

[rzyzzy]

4 hours ago, StudentNurseMNUS said:

I completely agree with your comment. I do not understand why ADN degrees are even still in place, the standard should be a BSN degree in my opinion. Community college courses are in not in any form as difficult or challenging as the courses offered in a four year university. I also find comfort in knowing I will be graduating feeling more prepared thanks to all the hard I have put into obtaining my four year degree rather than just a two year one.

Not sure where you get a “two year” nursing degree, but it wasn’t possible at my community college.. there are pre-requisites before you can even apply to the nursing program, and my program was four semesters..

[NurseBlaq]

2 hours ago, Salisburysteak said:

You are so misguided in how CC work. I went to a CC and my professors were ALL DNPs. We had one MSN educator and she was in the process of getting her DNP. Crazy isn't it. BSN prepared nurses CANNOT teach(didactic) in the classroom. LET me say it again--BSN nurses cannot teach didactic lectures in the classroom. But then again you never went to a CC to obtain your degree so how would you know.

Good thing I read through the thread before I responded because I was just about to call that poster out on the fairytales and fallacies. Classroom nursing professors, even in community college, must have, at minimum, an MSN and they have a certain amount of time to obtain a DNP.

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

3 hours ago, Uroboros said:

Interesting you mention education makes no difference, but immediately cite attendance for two years at a university as your qualifier. Since you also refer to nursing as a mere "gig" that pretty well sums up your position. Disappointing to say the least, but not even the most ferocious, determined species were able to survive without quickly adapting. Evolution has a way of taking care of things on its own. But good luck!

Wuzzie clearly hasn’t needed “luck”... she’s a complete nursing bad***

I’m actually experiencing some serious secondhand embarrassment for you ?

[Nunya, BSN]

1 hour ago, Uroboros said:

I find this mindset interesting to say the least as well. So you were around to wear a paper hat, stand in salute while holding the physician's ash tray thirty years ago, and that somehow gives you precedence past? Really it's a lack of understanding your personal meaning, and the intrinsic value assigned to a profession. And that understanding comes through higher education. Experience over time (and I have quite the resume as well dear) has nothing standardized about it, and that's dangerous ground to stand on. Very slippery to say the least. More often means you've simply made the same mistakes longer. We call it the ostrich effect in clinical psychology. Try that defense with your friendly BON, or for starters, with your next speeding ticket.

What does holding doctor's ashtrays etc have ANYTHING to do with what I said? I'm going to assume you're trying to make a point but I have no idea what it is. Edit: and FYI, my University got rid of mandatory caps my junior or senior year and I've never held a doctor's ashtrays. My worth isn't based on my job, I'm so much more than that. Maybe you aren't?

[JKL33]

1 hour ago, Uroboros said:

Really it's a lack of understanding your personal meaning, and the intrinsic value assigned to a profession. And that understanding comes through higher education.

I trust you have noticed that, for all the cries of needing professionals (BSNs) at the bedside for sicker patients, there has not appeared to be much attendant intention of treating bedside BSNs as professionals (that is, in the minds of employers). There have been a lot of dog and pony shows, but not much on the ground to indicate a bona fide recognition of the intrinsic value of BSN-prepared bedside workers in the minds of employers (or patients for that matter).

Despite all the talk about professional nurses, we also don't appear to have made much headway in the area of autonomy. Not surprising in the least--we were so hellbent on "advancing" by making sure no evil doctor told us what to do that we gleefully ran straight into the arms of MBAs instead. A number of the higher-up nursing professionals among us appeared to find this quite preferable as soon as a few were given fake seats at the table, which I will never be able to wrap my head around. I'm not sure how pandering and empty promises continue to be effective manipulators of such wise and well-educated professionals as these.

That said, a BSN degree isn't useless at all. There have been innumerable discussions about how/where they come in handy on an individual level and how (in fact and theory) they could or already have advanced the practice of nursing. In my personal experience the usefulness of a BSN degree at the bedside (compared to ADN at the bedside) has been much more difficult to recognize and quantify, though. That is to point out, for example, that BSNs at the bedside are still punching a clock under the same extremely demanding, devoid-of-autonomy take-it-or-leave-it circumstances as ADNs. And if/when ADNs are extinguished it'll still be the BSNs punching the clock and asking "how high."

I point these things out because the bedside is where the philosophical battle really rages and the pro-BSN argument falters a little (already described). I don't often see people arguing that the BSN degree isn't useful in pursuing nursing roles away from the bedside, or that a good education that can be parlayed into a practical benefit isn't valuable.

[Nunya, BSN]

1 hour ago, Rose_Queen said:

A gentle reminder:

I think admins should just prohibit posts like this. It only invites the "I'm better than you because I have a BSN, Master's, I'm a NP" attitude. I've known some excellent ADN nurses and I've known some with Master's who aren't. I've known some LVNs who are smarter and better workers than BSNs. I've known some techs/ medics in the military who I'd rather have as the second person on than a nurse, even though that makes my workload higher. We ALL pass the same exam. Everyone has/had their own reasons for doing the program they did or are doing, and what works for one doesn't work for the other.

[Wuzzie]

1 minute ago, JKL33 said:

I point these things out because the bedside is where the philosophical battle really rages and the pro-BSN argument falters a little (already described). I don't often see people arguing that the BSN degree isn't useful in pursuing nursing roles away from the bedside, or that a good education that can be parlayed into a practical benefit isn't valuable.

Absolutely agree. Frankly I wish we’d just come to a consensus on entry to practice and be done with all of this nonsense. It’s stupid.

[LovingLife123]

Hmmm, pot stirring? These students I’m guessing are very bored with no school or clinical s right now.

First of all, it’s an ASN. An Associates In SCIENCE. Unless you want to call a BSN an BDN. With my prereqs my ASN took 3 years to complete. My CC was tougher and more respected than any local BSN program. I graduated with absolutely no debt. My program has a 100% NCLEX pass rate.

I was hired prior to graduation into a Magnet Hospital into the ICU. That was 7 years ago. I was the first off orientation and actually did quite well compared to my BSN counterparts. Oh, did I mention I graduated debt free?

I now have my BSN. Did it all online and my hospital paid for it. That extra religion and history class did nothing for me. The absolute biggest difference in the two degrees is the liberal arts hours. You should truly compare the hours in the two programs.

Those who post comments like baffles me. Do people not understand that the clinical hours are the same as that is set by the BON.

I would suggest not voicing this opinion here.