Let me start by saying this is a vent post so if you are not interested in an opinion based post please skip over.
I am currently about to graduate from an ADN program in December. I have worked super hard to get into my program, worked hard throughout my program learning all the same stuff as BSN nursing programs, and just recently took the same Hurst review for the same NCLEX program as BSN students. With that being said, I see so much "title throwing" on this site. By that I mean there are so many posts almost belittling ADN nurses and they are a bit discouraging.
Don't get me wrong I 100% understand it will be more difficult to find a job however here in the DFW where I am at, 2 major hospital groups have partnerships with ADN programs meaning they are still hiring ADN nurses. If anything, and again I mean no disrespect but I hear better things from floor nurses during clinical rotations about our program than some of the major BSN programs in our area.
I guess my frustration comes into play when it seems as though at the point I am in now in terms of getting close to application time there is no support for others. Rather if you read this site and you are an ADN nurse you may feel as though you wasted your time getting a degree. I definetely need a job ASAP but I am not going to belittle those who I feel over paid for their education at which once the "new nurse" title is gone it really doesn't matter where you went to school so long as you have a valid RN license.
Hmm, just feeling a bit discouraged I guess. At any rate, just thought I would share my silly rant. :) Hope everyone is having a great day!
I did want to add though that I'm sure most of us have noticed the degree inflation moving to management positions as well, now most are needing a MSN with an MBA, not just a BSN anymore.
I'm not questioning your statement but want to hear from others about this. Are you guys really just now noticing a trend to requiring graduate degree for management position? I remember when I worked in BFE smallish hospital in the late '90s pushing out BSN management in favor of MSN. I've had one BSN manager since then and she had to be enrolled in an MSN program to accept the position. I do live in a much more urban area so maybe that's the difference? You can still get into educator positions as a BSN but that's likely because they just can't fill those positions.
Specializes in Medical-Surgical/Float Pool/Stepdown.
I'm not questioning your statement but want to hear from others about this. Are you guys really just now noticing a trend to requiring graduate degree for management position? I remember when I worked in BFE smallish hospital in the late '90s pushing out BSN management in favor of MSN. I've had one BSN manager since then and she had to be enrolled in an MSN program to accept the position. I do live in a much more urban area so maybe that's the difference? You can still get into educator positions as a BSN but that's likely because they just can't fill those positions.
I haven't just started to notice, it's been rolling in for a decade now but many seem to just be focused on this "BSN" push from the hospital systems seeking Magnet or for other reasons. It seems as this particular topic has just not been a hot button topic for attention like the good old ADN vs BSN argument. I'm just saying that enough of us aren't paying attention to the subject and many are just thinking, "well since I have a BSN I'm a shoe-in for a management/leadership position" which is just simply rarely the case anymore...or new grads wanting to work at the bedside! And at my hospital, newer nurses are lining up on trying to fill those education/quality control/etc positions because they don't want to do direct Pt care and never did. I'm also not a fan of the ever changing/expanding roles for medical assistants. I think we should pay a hell of a lot more attention to MA's as a profession than focus the energy we do on the ADN/Diploma/BSN debate. Just grandfather everyone in already and make BSN the entry level (with holding schools across the country to specific standards of education, entry requirements, and cost control, just as our post graduate schools should be doing as well-everybody and their mother is going to be an NP these days too ).
With Grants, my ADN degree will cost about -$3400 .
It is my intention to pursue a MSN, providing I graduate with the ADN.
No point loosing Pell grant elgibility for MSN, even with the economical choice of a BSN bridge.
I did apply to one BSN program and was rejected. I looked at three additional BSN schools. They all required you be enrolled in the main university and taking classes in order to apply. The prospect of simultaneously enrolling in three seperate schools made the next decision easy.
I think the feedback here is great and I understand where people are coming from on both sides!
I think in the end, like you mentioned - everyone takes the same exam. Their journey to get there differs greatly. I am currently deciding on whether to do an ABSN or an ADN program and have been leaning towards an ADN for multiple reasons.
1) It is cheaper - yes even in the long run. Like almost $30,000 cheaper. So if I complete the ADN and take the exam to become an RN, I can work full time and take an online RN to BSN program (and who knows, maybe my employer will pay for it).
2) I already have a Bachelors in Communications and a Masters in Business Administration so me getting my associates is not an 'easy way out'. I think its the smart way for my particular situation.
-I spoke with a teacher for one of my grad classes who actually works on the business side if KU school of nursing and she recommended with my background getting an ADN then doing an RN-BSN program.
3) I can't really afford to spend another 4 years in school (working only part-time) while working towards my BSN. I also cannot afford to Spend 12 - 22 months in an Accelerated program not working at all.
I think the decision is solely up to the person seeking the degree! Don't be discouraged at all!!
So what about the twist to the above statements that change when taking into account that a lot more new grad BSN's don't want to work in hospitals anymore as bedside nurses?
Bedside positions can occur outside of the hospital setting.
I want to see proof that Bsn's do not want to work in the hospital.
I know this...Bsn's do not want to work in Ltc,and i do not blame them.
I don't think it should be such a battle. We are all RNs. We have the same responsibilities on the floor and are expected to have the same level of knowledge toward patient care once employed. The salary should be based on the job and the ability to perform the required skills and not the education level...(I mean does taking statistics or an extra American history really make you a better nurse?). I have no problem with employers putting a minimum education level on a job at the hiring level...but don't pay two equally qualified nurses who are doing the same job different salaries based on their degree level....certifications and experience, yes...how many years they sat in school before becoming licensed nurses no. The job should be deciding the pay rate, not the degree.
I disagree.
DO you think an Lpn with 30 years of experience should get paid more than a Bsn with 5 years experience?
Bsn educated nurses should get paid at least $4 more than an Adn.
That is not what actual statistical evidence shows. So you "dare even say" based on what? Statistics or what you see around you? There are links all over this thread to statistical data showing better patient outcomes. When you are "sure" of something you need something called "evidence" and not "most nurses I would consider better" which is not quantitative or even qualitative. It is an opinion based on what? Your floor in the hospital where you work? And no matter if an ADN nurse is the "greatest nurse of all times" there are positions and graduate schooling that you cannot get because you do not meet the minimum requirements..ie Officer in the military nurse corps REQUIRES a BSN. They don't also say "or if you are a great ADN nurse". Graduate school requires an BSN.
There are several schools that award an MSN without the need for a bachelor's degree in any field.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNCC), a highly ranked nursing school, is one of those schools. This school has a list of 51 prerequisites to be completed within the last 10 years. 42 of those credits is completed during most ADN programs. The RN to MSN at this school takes 3 years as opposed to the BSN to MSN of 2 years.
BSN programs usually require 8 to 10 prerequisites before applying. This makes the BSN degree a 5+ year degree.
Some ADN programs only require 2 classes before accepting, with finishing the remainder during the program. A prospective individual can go from nothing to an MSN in 5 years plus two semesters.
Here in Los Angeles you will be hard pressed to find a hospital job with an ADN. That is the reason I went back to finish my RN-BSN. My hospital only hires BSN and it states that on their web site. Personally, I think we need to raise the educational level for nursing. I have worked as all levels LPN, ADN, and BSN.....we are moving toward a higher educational level as entry, regardless of our own personal opinions. Employers are forcing this movement forward.
There are several schools that award an MSN without the need for a bachelor's degree in any field.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNCC), a highly ranked nursing school, is one of those schools. This school has a list of 51 prerequisites to be completed within the last 10 years. 42 of those credits is completed during most ADN programs. The RN to MSN at this school takes 3 years as opposed to the BSN to MSN of 2 years.
BSN programs usually require 8 to 10 prerequisites before applying. This makes the BSN degree a 5+ year degree.
Some ADN programs only require 2 classes before accepting, with finishing the remainder during the program. A prospective individual can go from nothing to an MSN in 5 years plus two semesters.
Bsn educated nurses should get paid at least $4 more than an Adn.
Based on what? Are these East Coast dollars or West Coast? Is this $4 difference to be expected in Wisconsin the same as it is in Louisiana? New York City and Chattahoochee?
To be that specific ("at least $4") seems odd to me.
To use your example, would you expect a BSN RN new grad with zero healthcare experience to earn "at least" $4 more than an ADN RN with ten years of acute care experience, doing the very SAME job? Why?
Regarding the content of this thread, it seems to me that as long as there are multiple routes to the same career, there will be multiple opinions and preferences.
Should the time come when one cannot become licensed as an RN without first obtaining a BSN, well, then I expect we'd soon be discussing why all these BSNs are still "allowed" to work alongside the MSN RNs, who are better educated and therefore we should consider eliminating the BSN in favor of MSN. And then DNP. And so on.
I personally feel that the only way to expect to continue advancing within this profession is to continue one's education, and for an ADN like myself that means finishing up the few courses needed to bridge the gap and get a BSN (my prior college degrees left me needing only a handful of courses to be awarded a BSN--I just need to get on the stick!). For BSNs, I think it's reasonable to have them be aware that they, too, will be expected to "up the ante" just like diploma nurses had to do to get ADNs....ADNs to get BSNs. Yep, I expect BSNs will eventually go that same route in order to stay competitive in an ever-increasingly competitive job market.
Be proud of what you have earned. Don't let anyone take it away from you, it's yours! No one should feel it's appropriate to denigrate another for having less of an education (in the SAME profession, of all ridiculous things!) anymore than it's appropriate to mock another for having more education.
I'm reminded of my favorite Eleanor Roosevelt quote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent". I think I got that right, anyway :)
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TiffyRN, BSN, PhD
2,316 Posts
I'm not questioning your statement but want to hear from others about this. Are you guys really just now noticing a trend to requiring graduate degree for management position? I remember when I worked in BFE smallish hospital in the late '90s pushing out BSN management in favor of MSN. I've had one BSN manager since then and she had to be enrolled in an MSN program to accept the position. I do live in a much more urban area so maybe that's the difference? You can still get into educator positions as a BSN but that's likely because they just can't fill those positions.