ADN vs BSN Battle

DnCali · Jun 18, 2015

I would also like to add that I believe nursing should evolve to keep up with current trends. We want to be recognized as professionals but have set the bar way lower than our counter parts (PT, OT, etc.). Not only are nursing schools, nursing organizations, and boards of nursing propelling the BSN as entry along BUT employers are the biggest driving force. Employers should support and assist in funding ADN nurses to obtain their BSN. I think a reasonable time frame should be offered and those nurses not willing should be placed in open positions where they may not need a BSN (such as a clinic) or they should seek employment elsewhere. Those nurses set to retire within a specified time frame (say 6-8 years), should be allowed to complete their service without adhering to this requirement. These are my opinions only. Eduction is a positive thing!

smartnurse1982 · Jun 19, 2015

To use your example, would you expect a BSN RN new grad with zero healthcare experience to earn "at least" $4 more than an ADN RN with ten years of acute care experience, doing the very SAME job? Why?

I am basing this off of a previous experience that i had long ago,where an Lpn was getting paid $2/hr more than me.

Our length of employment was similar,but the difference was i had to start as a new grad Rn even though i was an Lpn five years prior.

So a new grad Rn made less than an lpn with 5 years experience.

(That was in Pdn though,which operates differently than other employers)

You do not think its terribly unfair that Bsn educated nurses get $0 to 0.50 more a hour than an ADN nurse?

I am a Adn if that matters.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jun 19, 2015

I know many will get mad at this,but i think Adn programs should place more emphasis on NON-ACUTE bedside positions.
We know we are not wanted in acute care,so why not educate us on where we are most likely to be employed
edited for length
Us Adn's are still needed,just not in acute care.

I don't disagree that more non-acute content should be taught, with so much focus today on primary prevention and outside-of-hospital treatments. However, the trouble with this suggestion is that the NCLEX is mostly acute care focused. All nursing programs should be preparing students for success on the NCLEX.

Besides, consider the content in RN-to-BSN bridge programs (something I recently completed, after many years in acute and critical care, I might add.) Most of my program -- and others that I'm aware of -- was theory, and practical knowledge for non-acute settings. For example, we had a Geriatric nursing class which did focus on the unique needs of the elderly in LTC, home, and ambulatory care. We studied public health nursing to the extent that our graduates are assumed to qualify for the PHN cert, no exam needed. We studied family health nursing, holistic nursing, and even had a class in informatics.

What was not taught was advanced pharm, critical care, procedural nursing, post anesthesia, or any other area considered acute/critical.

So then for someone like so many of us who first received our ADN and later completed the BSN, when would we learn acute care nursing?

Just my thoughts.

Its kind of interesting we are always having this debate,yet we say nothing when more and more of our nursing skills are being done by UAP's.

I suspect part of the silence is ain't nobody got time for that. Ratios are heavy, and a lot of the tasky stuff can be easily taught to UAP.

futureRNhope · Jun 20, 2015

Based on what? Are these East Coast dollars or West Coast? Is this $4 difference to be expected in Wisconsin the same as it is in Louisiana? New York City and Chattahoochee?
To be that specific ("at least $4") seems odd to me.
To use your example, would you expect a BSN RN new grad with zero healthcare experience to earn "at least" $4 more than an ADN RN with ten years of acute care experience, doing the very SAME job? Why?

Based on the fact that those with a BSN have a higher level degree, yes their STARTING pay should be higher! Then, as time goes on, experience should then lead to raises for both those with BSNs and ADNs.

TriciaJ, RN · Jun 21, 2015

I am basing this off of a previous experience that i had long ago,where an Lpn was getting paid $2/hr more than me.
Our length of employment was similar,but the difference was i had to start as a new grad Rn even though i was an Lpn five years prior.
So a new grad Rn made less than an lpn with 5 years experience.
(That was in Pdn though,which operates differently than other employers)
You do not think its terribly unfair that Bsn educated nurses get $0 to 0.50 more a hour than an ADN nurse?
I am a Adn if that matters.

If you look at many employer pay scales (particularly union contracts) you will see overlapping pay rates. So a new person with a higher position may initially make less than an experienced person in a lower position.

Many employers offer an education differential, but some don't, rationalizing that the job description is the same, so why should anyone get more for doing the same thing? Others believe that additional education makes for a better employee.

Some employers believe that experience trumps education, and are willing to pay more for that. In a union shop, the contract is negotiated with the input of employees. How does the rank-and-file view education vs experience?

You have already seen on AN the myriad opinions out there. Those opinions are expressed in pay scales as well.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 23, 2015

Based on the fact that those with a BSN have a higher level degree, yes their STARTING pay should be higher! Then, as time goes on, experience should then lead to raises for both those with BSNs and ADNs.

There are enough employers who place a higher value on experience than they do on the degree, so...no, BSNs aren't going to START at a higher pay than someone who has valuable nursing experience. Some employers will pay a little bit more for the higher degree, but overall (and I can only speak for what I know, my own experiences) that greater value is usually placed on the greater well of knowledge and ability that only experience itself brings. I'm not talking "knowledge" as in "school classes", I'm talking "knowledge" as in "been there, done that, recognize the signs in advance and know what to do about it". IOW....experience that has high value.

You can always work to change something you don't like about an employer's policies....just know what they are when you go in :)

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 23, 2015

You do not think its terribly unfair that Bsn educated nurses get $0 to 0.50 more a hour than an ADN nurse?

No, not really. If they are doing the same job, then....no, I don't see it as terribly unfair. A line cook with a masters degree gets paid the same for the line cook job as the fellow who didn't graduate high school. They do the same job, and it doesn't require an advanced degree in order to do it. I realize that line cook and RN aren't the same thing, of course, but I'm answering your question about "fairness", and it's an analogy that works for my point.

Now, once that nurse with the higher degree has some experience under his/her belt, that's a different matter. I do believe in rewarding those who have achieved higher degrees with a recognition, but that might not come when staying in the same bedside job. Advancement, greater opportunities to move up, absolutely. That's where that degree definitely gets put to great advantage. But......if you ARE doing the same job....it's hard to justify paying one person more than another based ONLY on that degree. Can't say I know what that recognition really should be, but I'm not comfortable with saying that a BSN should automatically translate into more dollars at the bedside (for the same job).

That's my opinion, anyway.

futureRNhope · Jun 23, 2015

No, not really. If they are doing the same job, then....no, I don't see it as terribly unfair. A line cook with a masters degree gets paid the same for the line cook job as the fellow who didn't graduate high school. They do the same job, and it doesn't require an advanced degree in order to do it. I realize that line cook and RN aren't the same thing, of course, but I'm answering your question about "fairness", and it's an analogy that works for my point.
Now, once that nurse with the higher degree has some experience under his/her belt, that's a different matter. I do believe in rewarding those who have achieved higher degrees with a recognition, but that might not come when staying in the same bedside job. Advancement, greater opportunities to move up, absolutely. That's where that degree definitely gets put to great advantage. But......if you ARE doing the same job....it's hard to justify paying one person more than another based ONLY on that degree. Can't say I know what that recognition really should be, but I'm not comfortable with saying that a BSN should automatically translate into more dollars at the bedside (for the same job).
That's my opinion, anyway.

Your "line cook" example actually does NOT work in this sense. A line cook requires very little beyond basic training which is why only experience would matter. Nursing is a far more complex profession and should be regarded as such. I take it that you only have your ADN and aren't trying to obtain a higher degree. If that works for you then fine but please stop trying to fool yourself into believing that the degree holds little value in the workforce.

smartnurse1982 · Jun 27, 2015

Can't say I know what that recognition really should be, but I'm not comfortable with saying that a BSN should automatically translate into more dollars at the bedside (for the same job).

That's my opinion, anyway.

The recognition is in the form of better employment opportunities i guess.

I thought i was sleep when i saw a local nursing home's ad on Craigslist that preferred Bsn Rn's.

A Bsn for a bedside Ltc position? Really?

WCSU1987 · Jul 2, 2015

Worked out a hospital that was going to merge with another hospital. It was like watching nurse war's. Basically everyone in our hospital had ADNs they were great nurse's. However, other hospital had lot of BSN nurses...the worry was BSN nurses would take the job's of the experience nurse's.

I work in a hospital that shut closed it's diploma program down because hospital will only hire BSN nurse's. We have a lot of ADN/Diploma nurse's working who are scrambling to get their BSN.

However, most manager's have their MSN...but the kicker is a lot of them were second degree nurse's. They went for their ADN then bridged over to a Master's program. Really feel should give some more love to the ADNs. I love to do my RN to MSN, but unfortunately probably do my BSN join the military pay my way to a MSN/Doctorate program.

qqu9569 · Jul 2, 2015

There are many paths to the same goal....I graduated from a CC with my ADN 24 years ago. I have never felt

the lack of an advanced degree has blocked my chosen path in nursing. I have been a DON, have worked in and

out of the hospital, worked as a traveler for seven years all over the US and am currently an ICU nurse doing

house supervisor on the side. I have learned great things from my BSN (and higher) brothers and sisters.....as

well as LVN's, other ADN's, and even really sharp CNA's. Where you live and your personal preferences have a

lot to do with any educational decision. Good luck to you going forward-nursing has always given me what I

needed financially and personally and I hope it will do the same for you;)