ADN Nurses Being Forced to go Back to School?

[tnbutterfly - Mary]

New Rules Send Upstate Nurses (in S.C.) Back to School

Hospitals across the country are now mandating that nurses with associate degrees obtain a Bachelor of Science degree.The change went into effect July 1 for nursing staff at Greenville Health System. The organization anticipates 300 nurses will be required to sign a Memorandum of Understanding stating that they will return to school for a BSN degree within four years.

The change in education requirements for nursing staff is based on a recommendation from the Institute of Medicine. The non-profit advisory group wants 80 percent of all nurses to have a four-year degree by 2020.

"We hope for the patient, it will provide enhanced care," according to Judith Thompson, CEO of the South Carolina Nurses Association.

One rationale behind this is that since the role of the nurse in the hospital is changing and becoming more complex, more education is needed to keep up.

What do you think about making nurses with years of experience under their belts to go back to school or risk their jobs?

[nursel56]

The educational requirements are increasing in just about every other professional field and bachelor degrees are becoming the norm. Heck, many companies even expect that their admin assistants and receptionists to possess a 4 year degree. I do not see why we should not expect the same of nursing, or be uninterested in elevating the status of RN's. I have two bachelor degrees, am finishing up my master's in Public Health, and will start my BSN in January. I anticipate that my education will make me more aware of issues facing entire healthcare systems of delivery rather than just my world of nursing. It will put me in a position to be a stronger advocate for my patients, my fellow RN's, and provide a better opportunity for my input to be valued as healthcare is restructured.

While not everyone has the same ambitions I have, I feel strongly that RN's should welcome higher levels of education if for no other reason than to have "you only have an associates" no longer be a source of disrespect or derision from physicians and administration.

What is it specifically that leads you to state physicians view ADN nurses with disrespect and derision? How many times have you heard "you only have an associates" said by a physician to an ADN RN?

[Mr. Murse]

While I'm glad that they are at least allowing a 4 year window for ADN nurses to start their BSN programs, my experience on the floor so far tells me that BSN degrees, pragmatically speaking, are way overrated. As someone a few posts back mentioned, you either have critical thinking skills or you do not. I know some crappy BSN nurses that I wouldn't want taking care of me, and some excellent ADN nurses who I would trust with my life. It's just naive to pretend like a BSN makes a more competent nurse.

If the "powers that be" are insistent on nurses having their BSN though, I wish they just had some kind of system where we could grandfather in our ADN nurses, instead of forcing them to go back to school and be forced to pay to sit in a classroom for knowledge they have already learned more effectively in the field.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

What is it specifically that leads you to state physicians view ADN nurses with disrespect and derision? How many times have you heard "you only have an associates" said by a physician to an ADN RN?

I think people who say physicians disrespect ADN prepared nurses are projecting their own insecurities onto other people.

I suspect the vast majority couldn't care less.

When one argues for elimination of the ADN because they believe it will lead to better care, I can respect that. I might not agree, but I can respect it. But when our BSN colleagues say they want the ADN/LPN gone because "doctors/pharmacists/professors/the public/daddy/whoever doesn't respect me because I'm tainted by association", they just sound whiny and needy.

[Mr. Murse]

While not everyone has the same ambitions I have, I feel strongly that RN's should welcome higher levels of education if for no other reason than to have "you only have an associates" no longer be a source of disrespect or derision from physicians and administration.

Have you really ever heard a physician or member of administration ever tell a nurse "you only have an associates"? I know in my facility, the physicians don't even know who has which degree and they base their opinions of their nurses by their competency, not their degree, and the two are most definitely not directly proportional.

[VivaLaVespaGirl, BSN, MSN]

What is it specifically that leads you to state physicians view ADN nurses with disrespect and derision? How many times have you heard "you only have an associates" said by a physician to an ADN RN?

It is a measured statement given posts I have read right here on AN, ADN nurse friend experiences, my husband's experience as a hospital executive, and based on a recent grad school project requiring interviews with the director of nursing and physicians at a local hospital.

The exact words "you only have an associates" may not be used, but it is clear that there is an educational divide and a certain lack of respect from many (not all, probably not even most - but many) physicians that could serve to be minimized by requiring higher levels of educational attainment. It is not my intent to assert that those with an ADN are less deserving of that respect or in any way less qualified, but when one does not have 25+ years of experience, degrees go a long way in commanding respect. Part of that may also be that I currently work in the government sector in DC where the first 2 questions you are asked when meeting someone new are almost always 1) where did you go to college and 2) what did you major in?

[Caffeine_IV]

I found another article on this topic mentioned in tnbutterfly's link which stated that another North Carolina health system (Spartanburg Regional) announced the same policy last year. Basically, it states that their current RN employees with associate degrees must have earned their BSN by 2017 or 3 years from January, 2014.

The mandate would affect 540 nurses, or 45% of their staff as of October, 2013 when they sent out the letter. Further details: Spartanburg Regional nurses must have BSN degree by 2017 .

I haven't been able to find anything that states they have made any changes in their policy. It will be interesting to see what happens to those nurses as the deadline of 2017 approaches.

Spartanburg Regional is in South Carolina and it has been having a BSN preference for years and amped it up in the last 2. I work with some nurses that are also employed there.

[nursel56]

It is a measured statement given posts I have read right here on AN, ADN nurse friend experiences, my husband's experience as a hospital executive, and based on a recent grad school project requiring interviews with the director of nursing and physicians at a local hospital.

The exact words "you only have an associates" may not be used, but it is clear that there is an educational divide and a certain lack of respect from many (not all, probably not even most - but many) physicians that could serve to be minimized by requiring higher levels of educational attainment. It is not my intent to assert that those with an ADN are less deserving of that respect or in any way less qualified, but when one does not have 25+ years of experience, degrees go a long way in commanding respect. Part of that may also be that I currently work in the government sector in DC where the first 2 questions you are asked when meeting someone new are almost always 1) where did you go to college and 2) what did you major in?

I guess I interpreted your feeling strongly about this "if for no other reason" meant that you assigned a significance that surpassed other reasons someone might advocate for requiring a BSN. Thanks for clarifying the basis for your opinion.

[Caffeine_IV]

Is there a study that shows or compares BSN nurses and ADN-BSN nurses. How would you prove that the enhanced care is not related to years of experience?

[beckyboo1, BSN, RN]

Have you really ever heard a physician or member of administration ever tell a nurse "you only have an associates"? I know in my facility, the physicians don't even know who has which degree and they base their opinions of their nurses by their competency, not their degree, and the two are most definitely not directly proportional.

I also wondered how exactly a physician would know what credentials a nurse has. Crazy

[oncnursemsn]

Boy this is a hot topic. I think we all know physicians who have poor clinical skills/judgement etc. But- they are "MD's" with a basic degree in medicine. Of course they can have additional degrees: MPH, PhD etc. But they are MD's first. However, to gain recognition in our profession among docs, social workers, physical therapists etc, we should require nurses to have bachelor degrees at entry level going forward. This is not to discount all nurses who have ADN and diploma degrees- how do we recognize decades of hands on nursing experience? Grandfather in our experienced nurses and work to standardize nursing education. I look forward to suggestions...

[Susie2310]

It is a measured statement given posts I have read right here on AN, ADN nurse friend experiences, my husband's experience as a hospital executive, and based on a recent grad school project requiring interviews with the director of nursing and physicians at a local hospital.

The exact words "you only have an associates" may not be used, but it is clear that there is an educational divide and a certain lack of respect from many (not all, probably not even most - but many) physicians that could serve to be minimized by requiring higher levels of educational attainment. It is not my intent to assert that those with an ADN are less deserving of that respect or in any way less qualified, but when one does not have 25+ years of experience, degrees go a long way in commanding respect. Part of that may also be that I currently work in the government sector in DC where the first 2 questions you are asked when meeting someone new are almost always 1) where did you go to college and 2) what did you major in?

I believe you are writing primarily from a theoretical point of view, as, from your profile, you are a pre-nursing student. I can tell you that my experience of being respected by physicians, after being a nurse for 19 years, is nothing like you are asserting. Although I have a BSN, obtained after receiving my ADN, most physicians are aware only that I am a nurse, or an RN. I have earned respect from physicians because I took good care of their patients, just as they have earned my respect because they took good care of their patients, and because they made it possible for me to take good care of their patients, i.e. they responded appropriately to my concerns. No physician has paid attention to what my educational credentials are, just as I don't pay attention to their educational credentials, beyond knowing that they are a physician, and their specialty.

I don't doubt that there are physicians who feel they cannot respect nurses who are ADN educated (although I'm not sure how they would be able to tell this reliably unless the nurse volunteered the information), but there are physicians who do not respect nurses in general, and I do not care about whether either of these groups respects me as long as we can communicate well enough that I can provide the necessary care for their patients. I respect myself and I do my best to provide very good nursing care. Physicians have complimented me on the care I have given their patients. That is all the appreciation and respect I need.

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

A far wiser course of action would be to simply grandfather in all current RNs and make a BSN a requirement for future hires.

But hospitals are all about control and they love telling their employees what to do like forcing vaccinations on everyone! Too bad for the ones that get GB from it!