A Lesson Learned

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Again, there is another thread started- which could be interpreted by some as passive-aggressive remarks about advanced degree nurses, and it could not. I read it and felt slightly insulted, and I responded. The thread now, appears to be taking on another ugly turn, and probably because I am involved. I sat here, after reading the replies, and started to feel exhausted again. Exhausted at feeling dismissed, put-down, not valued; all the things that nurses in general feel. I then thought back to when I was in school and when I decided to be a nurse.

I originally was a biology major. I loved the sciences and ultimately wanted to be a scientist. I worked in an environmental lab during college doing distillations and loved what I was learning. Somewhere, back in 1991 or 1992, I made the change to nursing. I also, while I enjoyed the sciences, loved infants and newborns and had a desire to take care of them. The nursing curriculum offered enough science courses to feed my hunger for them, and, would provide me the knowledge to obtain my RN license, so, I changed majors. At that time, I knew nothing of nursing as it is today. I did not know what an LPN was. I did not know that there were diploma programs and that nurses didn't have degrees. I assumed they all did. I thought nothing of it. I thought that all nurses were RNs and nothing else.

When I entered the curriculum, I then learned that no, not all nurses have BSNs. I learned how there used to be diploma programs, and how there are ADN programs. I learned in my management classes that, as a RN, I will most likely be delegating to other individuals to perform tasks. I learned that, as a BSN, I will be taught things that are not included in other programs. I learned that, as a BSN, I will have more opportunity to acquire positions that will possibly evoke change in the profession, or develop theories or test studies that could change how we practice. I was seeing this through the eyes of a young college student, who was eager to graduate and use what I've learned. I was eager to make a difference. Maybe my program was wrong is grooming us with this mindset, maybe it wasn't. But that is how I saw it at that time.

I then graduated college and it was the single most proudest moment of my life. As my academic hood was placed around my neck, and as I accepted my degree, and as I saw my family sitting in the crowd, looking at me realizing all the obstacles I had overcome, all the challenges I had faced, all the hours I had worked as a lab assistant, as a receptionist and as a bus-person to pay for school, I realized at that time, all that I had accomplished - and all that I had yet to do.

I started my nursing career in labor and delivery. I had a rough orientation, but loved learning the "skills" of L&D. I loved the challange that being an obstetric nurse provided. I joined AWHONN and attended conference after conference, read journal after journal, analyzing and critiquing the design, the method to see if I could apply it to my practice.

It was not until I joined internet communities that I came to learn that BSNs in fact, are not always valued by other nurses. No, other nurses don't look up to you for it. No, other nurses don't admire you for it. In fact, quite the opposite. Some people perceive BSNs as lacking basic skills, as having unnecessary classes, or, worse yet, as "just letters behind your name." I hear those comments, and I think back to my graduation day, and I almost want to cry. Cry at my choice to change my major back in 1991. Cry at the innocence that was lost the moment I became a working professional nurse. Now, I am hardened, suspicious, defensive and tired. I was disenchanted with the whole division of nursing, confused as to the roles each nurse played, stunned at the remarks about bachelor's degrees in general. Nursing made me what I am now: bitter.

I enrolled back into school because alot of the jobs I wanted as a nurse required a Master's degree. I also yearned to be back in that environment - the environment in which everyone is there to accomplish one thing - and that is to learn and to foster everyone else's learning. We read fellow graduate's theses and dissertations and are amazed at their findings and theories. We don't dismiss them or put them down because we LACK our Master's; in fact, we admire them. I have found that I can only function happily in the academic environment.

It was a sad realization, and I guess I just realized this now, after reading some of these threads. I feel the nursing profession has done nothing to foster my growth, but only hinder it. I am constantly reminded by my fellow nurses to "put my degree aside" and "keep myself in check." Do not tell anyone of your accomplishments - because, they aren't really what matters anyway. Well, it matters to me. :o

Thus, I retreat back to the hallowed halls of academia, to sequester in the quiet, somber alleys of the library filled with thousands of ideas that I have yet to discover. I find comfort in the old, creaky buildings from 1839 and the 200 year old Oak tree.

I guess, I wrote this thread to finally put into words what I've apparently felt for some time, but never really have been able to articulate. And I guess, I feel that I've given to my profession but haven't gotten anything back. Sometimes I feel that I should've stayed with biology.

I will make a difference in nursing, but it will not be at the bedside, I can almost guarantee you that. I will make my difference from afar, in writings and publications and research; in my ideas and theories, and, with my students. And, I feel that I am just as valuable in that regard as anyone who works at the bedside.

I just had to say that. :o

I would think any program tries to sell itself. I would assume that's why so many ADN and Diploma program graduates always assume their program has more clinical time than any BSN program.

My BSN program never gave me the impression that I would go straight into management, or into management at all in fact. So there was no rude awakening for me. Here true management positions now are starting to require Masters degrees. I think that's one of the problems with the BSN as entry thing, a lot of people seem to think that the only reason someone would want a BSN is to go into management and not to do bedside care.

fergus I must agree with you.

Originally posted by Huganurse

You took all those management and leadership classes that you were told you would need because as a BSN, that is the kind of job you'd have.

Nope. Never happened, not at my school. Nor was I ever told that BSN's were superior. You're missing the point here, with all due respect. It's not about the old ADN versus BSN argument, it is about the fact that

People on this board seem to get off by bashing BSN nurses all the time, and it is somehow deemed acceptable because BSN nurses are perceived as evil or snobby or whatever. THAT IS NOT OKAY. I DO NOT APPRECIATE ALL THE CRAPPY GENERALIZING THAT GOES ON HERE WHEN IT COMES TO TALKING ABOUT BSN NURSES. We don't deserve it, we didn't ask for it, and it's NOT okay.

Again, I offered in my previous post that anyone who disputes this fact may feel free to pm me, and I will send you quotes and threads....and there are MOUNTAINS of them....from this VERY bb where nurses make disparaging comments about BSN nurses and their COMPETENCE simply because of their degree.

Just as it's not okay to bash an LPN or ADN or generalize about 'all' ADN's or 'all' LPN's because of their degrees, it's not okay to do so to a BSN nurse. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHICH DEGREE IS BETTER, IT IS ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHO SEEM TO ENJOY BASHING BSN NURSES. IT'S RUDE, IT'S UNPROFESSIONAL, AND IT'S UNACCEPTABLE.

Huganurse, I put the 'bold' stuff in bold because I feel like people are totally viewing this thread as another ADN vs. BSN vs. LPN thread, and that's NOT what this is. It's a thread about how there are things that are regularly said about BSN nurses on this board that are disparaging and rude, but if the same were to be said about an ADN or LPN, there would be all kinds of uproar. If we are all equals and all nurses, as so many who regularly bash BSN's assert, then why is it okay to be such a damn hypocrite and trash a BSN nurse SIMPLY BASING YOUR JUDGEMENT ON HER DEGREE?

THAT is my point, and Susy's point, and Fergus' point, and Angus' point. I apologize in advance if it seemed like I was jumping on you or attacking you personally. I am not. I just want people to understand that this thread is about common courtesy towards ALL the nurses on this board, even the evil, snobby, hated BSN nurses.

What shay said.

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Damn Shay, you go! Yes, that is the point. This thread was started as a way for me to vent about all the comments that have been made in general about BSNs, and about me directly and personally. It gets old, it's unprofessional, and, after a while, can really put a person in the type of mood I was in when I started the thread.

But no, I don't believe BSN programs "groom" you for management. That was not the focus at all, at least not in my program. In fact, everyone in my class, like all nursing students, were obsessed with skills and learning how to do "nurse stuff." The desires to move out of bedside nursing is a personal choice, usually after one "grows up" so to speak. ;) Or, after the floors beat you up and mandate you and make you in charge after only 2 years with agency and yadda, yadda.

The beauty of nursing is the wide variety of employment choices.

There are a few people who KNOW right off the bat that they want to be a nurse midwife, for example, and so, they get the BSN, get the OB job to buy their time until they can get into midwifery school. Or there is the nurse who is working ICU to get into CRNA school. So many times I hear disparaging remarks about THESE people too - and that is not good. We need nurse midwives an we need CRNA's too - I never understood why this profession seems so unsupportive.

I disagree with someone who stated nursing is a technical profession. Yes it is, but you are forgetting the OTHER aspects of nursing that are NOT technical, such as planning, collaborating, educating, researching, etc. Nursing goes beyond just technical tasks and I think those aspects of nursing get forgotten alot.

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Shay, agree with you 100%. Also Fergus, Agnus and Susy.

Originally posted by Huganurse:

You took all those management and leadership classes that you were told you would need because as a BSN, that is the kind of job you'd have.

ONLY management type class required was our Senior Seminar, where we discussed trends in nursing, nursing managment and leadership. I took Legal Aspsects of Nursing and Nursing Management post graduation as I thought one time of Nursing Administration or Education as posibilities in the future.

What our BSN program stressed was excellence in nursing practice: be it at the bedside in a hospital ICU, Med/Surg unit, nursing home, home care setting or a move into nursing administration. A well rounded nursing practice based on nursing theory (considered "a new thing" in 1982) was emphasized so that we could provide the best nursing care to patients and be able to direct care in a large setting.

We had a minimum of 6 hrs on the unit Thursdays and Friday with a 1 1/2 -2 hr conference on Fridays to discuss what occured during the past two days, both good and bad. Patient assignment occured each Thursday morning with detailed care plan and hand written med cards due on Friday AM. An inspection occured first thing each morning to see if our hair was off shoulders, uniform clean and neat wth polished shoes and CAP securely in place along with chart review discussed with instructor. We each had to perform basic nursing tasks at least one time and be signed off by our instructor asocciated with each clinical area.

In those days students were cherrished and considered as potenital recruits. Most clinical sites went out of their way to include us in procedures occuring on the unit, whether our patients or not . "Do you want to assist with chest tube insertion...observe a code...have you done a foley catheterization yet?" was frequently heard. The OR nurses warned us of which if we don't assist in molding the new students, we only have ourselves to blame for their lack of exposure and chip on their shoulder fearing that first asignment dur to the negative student experinces...and leaving the units less than a year later.

WE were never taught that we were superior, but due to our community health (one semester spent in home health, and state health clinics) pediatrics (in and out patiendocs would throw instruments or crazy questions when we shadowed them in OR.

I know that accuity has changed the ability of some staff to be as generous with their time today, but t) and broad experiences outside the hospital teaching community groups, we could work in any setting out of the hospital, if we chose, as we had that experience which diploma schools did not offer at the time. The education stressed was understanding the theory behind WHY we performed a task... today's critical thinking. We also had nursing history, patient and professional advocacy interwoven in our classes, something I sense lacking into today's education.

I have worked at the hospital bedside 10 years and 15 years homecare bedside because that is the type of nursing I chose and hopefully will become a FNP and set up home visiting NP pracice in my area because of the need I've seen to maintain the homebound chronically ill at home with high quality care rather than nursing home placement.... which will still be bedside nursing.

"1. Are there any ADN, ASN or Diploma Nurses that think RN's should have thier BSN to practice as a RN? "-Huganurse

Yes, I have stated many times on this board that I think a BSN should be the minimum for entry into RN nursing practice. I am an ADN with no plans at the present to obtain a BSN.

"....feel free to pm me, and I will send you quotes and threads....and there are MOUNTAINS of them....from this VERY bb where nurses make disparaging comments about BSN nurses and their COMPETENCE simply because of their degree."- Shay

And the WORST offender I have seen is none other then the one who recently started all these arguments, 'Greyt'Nurse herself.

Please do a search and count how many helpful or kind posts she has made. Then count the ones that out and out BASH BSNs in particular and RNs in general. I think you will be shocked, as I was, at the amount of venom exhibited in her postings. She must be a sad, insecure, and sorry individual to get off on talking about other people, especially colleagues, that way. And she is the most vocal about demanding respect and how we are all in it for one goal, when all she gives is disrespect-and 9 times out of ten it is unprovoked except by the chip on her own shoulder.

Moderators-are you reading this?

No offense taken. I hope you read my entire post to see that I don't have a problem with any nurse. My post generated exactly the answers that I think others need to hear. I want to thank you and say that I agree too. Thank you!

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

It still continues. I am SICK of the PERSONAL ATTACKS!!!!!

People, LEARN how to debate! If you are threatened by something, so be it! But if someone disagrees with you - take it like an adult! Don't INSULT people and QUIT with the BSN put downs! ENOUGH!!!

:(

Suzy K quote, "It still continues. I am SICK of the PERSONAL ATTACKS!!!!!

People, LEARN how to debate! If you are threatened by something, so be it! But if someone disagrees with you - take it like an adult! Don't INSULT people and QUIT with the BSN put downs! ENOUGH!!!"

What are you talking about?? I read all the posts on this thread since your last post and I fail to find anything close to what you are accusing. The last few posts here have been productive and supportive of all nurses. The threads do take on a life of their own and turn in different directions than the original post, but is that not OK? Why are you so angry??? I understand why you would be angry at bashing and insults toward BSN's, but all I see is a bunch of nurses trying to figure this whole thing out... to lead to the end of finding a possible solution or atleast understanding of why nurses do not respect each other for who and what they are.

i just do not get it!?! we all have to go to accredited schools, take the same standardized tests (lpn/lvn), and rn to be licensed, so whaaat is the big deal?:eek:

i have worked with lpn's, rn's, bsn's, and charge nurses so much younger than me they could have been one of my children. did i put them down? no way. i believe that everyone brings something to the table (of life) that we can learn from. even though our educations and testing are basically standardized, we are influenced by our instructor/professors and their knowledge and life experiences. we all know that medicine is not an exact science, so whatever one nurse may have experienced with a patient, the next nurse with a patient with the same diagnosis may experience something totally different.:rolleyes: i think that is one of the intriguing things about this profession-you never quit learning! of course, if you do, you then become a danger to others.:p

i began life as a lpn-worked doctor's office, critical care/telemetry/icu stepdown. did that for 4 years, and bridged into a rn program. have had my adn for 15 years. if i could get the financing, i would go back for the msn/np. there are a few schools around that do that. my daughter-in-law is a fnp, working on her phd in nursing. do i feel inferior to her? certainly not! does she try to lord it over me? rarely, and then i have to forgive her, because she is young, and doesn't know better, sometimes.:stone

mario, i am so proud of you! you mentioned being a caring person, and that is absolutely what it takes to be the best kind of nurse. without heart, you are just a "technical nurse" who has the knowledge, but not the drive to help folks. also, be careful of those white scrubs you've got. peroxide will take out bloodstains, and hairspray will take out ball-point ink stains.

;) you will probably discover the value of darker colors, and prints.:D you go, dude! i don't think there are enough male nurses in the profession!

enough said-we can get long-winded sometimes. as several others have said, i do not care what initials are behind your name. if you represent yourself as anurse, then you'd darned-well better be prepared to walk, talk, and act like one, and a good one! that is the least we can do for our patients, and each other.;)

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