A Lesson Learned

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Again, there is another thread started- which could be interpreted by some as passive-aggressive remarks about advanced degree nurses, and it could not. I read it and felt slightly insulted, and I responded. The thread now, appears to be taking on another ugly turn, and probably because I am involved. I sat here, after reading the replies, and started to feel exhausted again. Exhausted at feeling dismissed, put-down, not valued; all the things that nurses in general feel. I then thought back to when I was in school and when I decided to be a nurse.

I originally was a biology major. I loved the sciences and ultimately wanted to be a scientist. I worked in an environmental lab during college doing distillations and loved what I was learning. Somewhere, back in 1991 or 1992, I made the change to nursing. I also, while I enjoyed the sciences, loved infants and newborns and had a desire to take care of them. The nursing curriculum offered enough science courses to feed my hunger for them, and, would provide me the knowledge to obtain my RN license, so, I changed majors. At that time, I knew nothing of nursing as it is today. I did not know what an LPN was. I did not know that there were diploma programs and that nurses didn't have degrees. I assumed they all did. I thought nothing of it. I thought that all nurses were RNs and nothing else.

When I entered the curriculum, I then learned that no, not all nurses have BSNs. I learned how there used to be diploma programs, and how there are ADN programs. I learned in my management classes that, as a RN, I will most likely be delegating to other individuals to perform tasks. I learned that, as a BSN, I will be taught things that are not included in other programs. I learned that, as a BSN, I will have more opportunity to acquire positions that will possibly evoke change in the profession, or develop theories or test studies that could change how we practice. I was seeing this through the eyes of a young college student, who was eager to graduate and use what I've learned. I was eager to make a difference. Maybe my program was wrong is grooming us with this mindset, maybe it wasn't. But that is how I saw it at that time.

I then graduated college and it was the single most proudest moment of my life. As my academic hood was placed around my neck, and as I accepted my degree, and as I saw my family sitting in the crowd, looking at me realizing all the obstacles I had overcome, all the challenges I had faced, all the hours I had worked as a lab assistant, as a receptionist and as a bus-person to pay for school, I realized at that time, all that I had accomplished - and all that I had yet to do.

I started my nursing career in labor and delivery. I had a rough orientation, but loved learning the "skills" of L&D. I loved the challange that being an obstetric nurse provided. I joined AWHONN and attended conference after conference, read journal after journal, analyzing and critiquing the design, the method to see if I could apply it to my practice.

It was not until I joined internet communities that I came to learn that BSNs in fact, are not always valued by other nurses. No, other nurses don't look up to you for it. No, other nurses don't admire you for it. In fact, quite the opposite. Some people perceive BSNs as lacking basic skills, as having unnecessary classes, or, worse yet, as "just letters behind your name." I hear those comments, and I think back to my graduation day, and I almost want to cry. Cry at my choice to change my major back in 1991. Cry at the innocence that was lost the moment I became a working professional nurse. Now, I am hardened, suspicious, defensive and tired. I was disenchanted with the whole division of nursing, confused as to the roles each nurse played, stunned at the remarks about bachelor's degrees in general. Nursing made me what I am now: bitter.

I enrolled back into school because alot of the jobs I wanted as a nurse required a Master's degree. I also yearned to be back in that environment - the environment in which everyone is there to accomplish one thing - and that is to learn and to foster everyone else's learning. We read fellow graduate's theses and dissertations and are amazed at their findings and theories. We don't dismiss them or put them down because we LACK our Master's; in fact, we admire them. I have found that I can only function happily in the academic environment.

It was a sad realization, and I guess I just realized this now, after reading some of these threads. I feel the nursing profession has done nothing to foster my growth, but only hinder it. I am constantly reminded by my fellow nurses to "put my degree aside" and "keep myself in check." Do not tell anyone of your accomplishments - because, they aren't really what matters anyway. Well, it matters to me. :o

Thus, I retreat back to the hallowed halls of academia, to sequester in the quiet, somber alleys of the library filled with thousands of ideas that I have yet to discover. I find comfort in the old, creaky buildings from 1839 and the 200 year old Oak tree.

I guess, I wrote this thread to finally put into words what I've apparently felt for some time, but never really have been able to articulate. And I guess, I feel that I've given to my profession but haven't gotten anything back. Sometimes I feel that I should've stayed with biology.

I will make a difference in nursing, but it will not be at the bedside, I can almost guarantee you that. I will make my difference from afar, in writings and publications and research; in my ideas and theories, and, with my students. And, I feel that I am just as valuable in that regard as anyone who works at the bedside.

I just had to say that. :o

"I will make a difference in nursing, but it will not be at the bedside, I can almost guarantee you that. I will make my difference from afar, in writings and publications and research; in my ideas and theories, and, with my students. And, I feel that I am just as valuable in that regard as anyone who works at the bedside."

I just read this and when you mentioned your students i was reminded of a story i once heard that has nothing to do with nursing in particular but i thought i would share anyways.

A father asks his little girl what she wants to be when she grows up. She replies, "I want to be a teacher." The father ask why not be a doctor?" and the little girl looks up and innocently says, Someone has to teach them how to be doctors. I would gladly give credit to the author of this but i cannot remember where i heard it. But it has always stuck in my head.

Be the very best we can be. If that means gaining a degree for Mary, going back to school for Mark, gaining initials for Cindy so she can open a door that she wants to enter, Studying hard and gaining that 4.0 so that Pete has what he need to begin applying it. Getting a C for Julie because she concentrates more on the human aspect of nursing than on the technical, moving into management or teaching because that is where Megan's talents personality and passions are then all of nursing can only benifit.

We are in a very diverse profession. Perhaps more than many professions, we have a staggering number of roles one can take on.

Viva la difference! Every single one contributes to the whole. and Benifits us all. I learned some valuable knowledge form a hospic nurse whom I was orienting to critical care. Yet I was supposed to be her teacher! I believe I took away more the experience. Because the field of Nursing is so vast no one acan know or do it all. I don't think anyone will argue that. Consequently we have nurses with diffrent skills backgrounds talents.

Because itd is so vast we don't understand everyone's role entirely and I thank SuzyK for her very enlightning insights into positions qualifications for Educators.

Yes, many of us dare to move from one area of nursing to another. In doing so we do at first seem like a rank novice in that new area,(because we are). But this novice brings with her?him skills and knowledge that can be share with us and usually it is ours just for the asking. Often we don't even have to ask. We all know ther is something to be learned everyday.

I really don't care if you wear your degree on you sleeve or not. If you act like you are better,because I am going to look for and find something that you have that I can learn and benifit from. Or a way that I can use your skills and knowledge to compliment my own inorder to bring my patient better care. It has a synergistic effect but only if at least one of us is able to recognize and take advantage of the benefit of both our contributions.

I am not the best nurse nor the worst. There will ALWAYS be better and lesser than me. This on NO reflection on me. But I am smart enough to recognize ther is something in it for me and for my patients to welcome this nurse who is diffeently qualified.

I don't usually respond to these kind of threads, as I am not usually a confrontational person, but some things mentioned have stirred up some emotions for me.

I graduated in May of last year with my ADN. School was not fun for me, I had health problems, my son developed asthma and we were so broke that we still haven't recovered from it. And I made A's all the way through. (nursing, NOT a&p or micro!! LOL) Anyway, if the 2 year program had not been available, I would not have been able to become a nurse because I did not have 4 years to spend in school.

That does not mean I don't value higher education. I intend to get my BSN, am actually looking at starting some pre-reqs next fall. I feel that if someone really is threatened by higher education, that is a self-esteem issue. I am proud of my degree, proud to be a nurse, and I am a damn good nurse in relation to my level of experience.

I have read posts here, however that make me defensive. When I read posts about there needing to be a BSN entry level for nursing, I feel as though *I* am not valued. I read that because the BSN is not the required entry level, education is not valued by nursing. Does that mean that MY education is not valued? I know that I don't have the liberal arts education BSNs have, I know BSNs recieve more education in community health than I did. And I want to have those things, and I will have those things, I am just working a little more slowly than others.

I think we all have nurses we look up to and want to emulate. That nurse for me is an LPN. Between her knowledge and patient care, I hope to be half the nurse she is one day. She is truly an exceptional human being and nurse.

I believe people get angry on this board because they feel that they are undervalued and considered to be less than, and I can understand that.

Nursing needs everyone right now. We are understaffed, underpaid and undervalued by the general public. Devaluing each other will not further our cause at all. To disparage someone because they have more or less education will only hurt us. I am glad for the CNAs because they do tasks that, while I would love to be able to do, I simply don't have the time because I am swamped with other things. The LPNs in our hospital have their own teams and without them I would have even MORE patients to care for, and the experienced LPNs, and RNs (ADN and BSN alike) are a wealth of knowledge for me. I appreciate the BSN and MSN nurses in management because I have no desire, at this point in my career, to do what they are doing. In fact, I don't think you could pay me enough to do what they do, but their jobs are necessary. And all the others I have not mentioned, CRNAs NPs, CNMs, anyone I have left out, we need them all, because all have different roles.

I think people just want to feel appreciated and valued and when we don't, we are hurt and sometimes respond by lashing out.

Suzy, I read your posts, and there are many things we don't agree about, but I do value you and your education. And I thank God there are nurses who want to do L&D, cause I sure as hell don't want to be anywhere near it!!! :roll However, having given birth, I sure as hell appreciate a good L&D nurse and all their knowledge and nursing care.

Laura

Originally posted by Agnus

I really don't care if you wear your degree on you sleeve or not. If you act like you are better,because I am going to look for and find something that you have that I can learn and benifit from. Or a way that I can use your skills and knowledge to compliment my own inorder to bring my patient better care. It has a synergistic effect but only if at least one of us is able to recognize and take advantage of the benefit of both our contributions.

That is one of the smartest things I have seen written on this board. I say AMEN!!!:D

I feel valued. As a CNA I felt valued, as and LPN I felt valued, as an ADN I feel valued, and as a BSN student I feel valued.

WHY?

Because this is a profession that has more roles within it than I can count. Perhaps more than any other profession. I realize I can not do all, nor be all. I cannot move into another area of nursing and know all that is know by those in that area.

I know that if I take advantage of out collective, knowledge, wisdom, skills, and experience I will grow and my patients will benefit. There will be a synergistic effect.

Therefore when I meet a nurse who has a need to be right, smarter, etc. I allow them that. I don't challenge an already fragile ego, and already hostile person. But I try to keep my own fragile ego out of the way and listen to them so that I CAN benefit.

Hostility is a sign of fear. Fear comes from a sense of not having control. A sense of control come from understanding that you have value.

Let us recognize that an animinal lashed out when they are scared. They are scared because they know that something can happen that they may not be able to stop. An animinal that has control knows their own assets (size, physical strength, experience in a simular situation etc).

People are no different in this.

Let's value the difference. If every nurse was exactly like me, and knew what I know, and have my skills then there would be a lot of people who we (as a whole), serve would suffer severely.

SuzyK, thank you for enlightning us on what it takes to be an educator. I think this demonstrates how we can easily misjudge what a person has to offer by just looking at the surface. You show us that even though it may appear a nurse Doesn't have my background and experience and is therefore unqualified to say teach someone to do my job this is not necessairly true.

She has assets that are even more extensive than mine with training in how to convey knowledge to a nursing student better than I can working in the trenches. I may know my job and be good at it. That doesn't make me able to teach it in such a way that the vast majority of new studendts can learn it.

It does not mean I have background in the areas that a professor does that enhance a (possilby) limited clinical experience to allow me to do your job of teaching or managing, or anything else.

Moe thanks for your great words this holliday.

I am glad you want to be an LPN and stay one. A CNA who wants to be a lawyer, I am glad you have a MSN or a doctoral degree. Because YOU bring me a gift and my (our) patients. A gift that is unique as your knowledge, tenderness, practicality, skill, wisdom etc. a gift that can only enhance not detract from my own.

OMG!!!:imbar :imbar :imbar I did not know that I posted twice saying essentially the same thing. I thought I deleted the first. Then I came back later and posted the second.

I'm sorry. I feel goofy. :chuckle Now I have to go back and read both post myself to see how silly it sounds.:rolleyes: You'd think I could pay attention. lol

Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.
Originally posted by LauraRN0501

I don't usually respond to these kind of threads, as I am not usually a confrontational person, but some things mentioned have stirred up some emotions for me.

I graduated in May of last year with my ADN. School was not fun for me, I had health problems, my son developed asthma and we were so broke that we still haven't recovered from it. And I made A's all the way through. (nursing, NOT a&p or micro!! LOL) Anyway, if the 2 year program had not been available, I would not have been able to become a nurse because I did not have 4 years to spend in school.

That does not mean I don't value higher education. I intend to get my BSN, am actually looking at starting some pre-reqs next fall. I feel that if someone really is threatened by higher education, that is a self-esteem issue. I am proud of my degree, proud to be a nurse, and I am a damn good nurse in relation to my level of experience.

I have read posts here, however that make me defensive. When I read posts about there needing to be a BSN entry level for nursing, I feel as though *I* am not valued. I read that because the BSN is not the required entry level, education is not valued by nursing. Does that mean that MY education is not valued? I know that I don't have the liberal arts education BSNs have, I know BSNs recieve more education in community health than I did. And I want to have those things, and I will have those things, I am just working a little more slowly than others.

I think we all have nurses we look up to and want to emulate. That nurse for me is an LPN. Between her knowledge and patient care, I hope to be half the nurse she is one day. She is truly an exceptional human being and nurse.

I believe people get angry on this board because they feel that they are undervalued and considered to be less than, and I can understand that.

Nursing needs everyone right now. We are understaffed, underpaid and undervalued by the general public. Devaluing each other will not further our cause at all. To disparage someone because they have more or less education will only hurt us. I am glad for the CNAs because they do tasks that, while I would love to be able to do, I simply don't have the time because I am swamped with other things. The LPNs in our hospital have their own teams and without them I would have even MORE patients to care for, and the experienced LPNs, and RNs (ADN and BSN alike) are a wealth of knowledge for me. I appreciate the BSN and MSN nurses in management because I have no desire, at this point in my career, to do what they are doing. In fact, I don't think you could pay me enough to do what they do, but their jobs are necessary. And all the others I have not mentioned, CRNAs NPs, CNMs, anyone I have left out, we need them all, because all have different roles.

I think people just want to feel appreciated and valued and when we don't, we are hurt and sometimes respond by lashing out.

Suzy, I read your posts, and there are many things we don't agree about, but I do value you and your education. And I thank God there are nurses who want to do L&D, cause I sure as hell don't want to be anywhere near it!!! :roll However, having given birth, I sure as hell appreciate a good L&D nurse and all their knowledge and nursing care.

Laura

...this is what we all are saying...Bravo!

:roll:kiss

NursiePooh,

Thank ya, thank ya vera much. (a very bad Elvis impression!)

:D

Laura, your post reminds me of a situation that happened when I was a CNA working in a nursing home.

There was a lady working in laundry. She was the cherriest person you could ever meet. One day she came up to me and said, "Agnus, I could never do what you do." I was flabbergasted because I thought the same thing. I replied, " could never do what you do. I know what we send you to do in the laundry."

"Oh, no," she replied, "You don't send me anything dirty. I love my job I am all alone in the bacement and I play my radio, and sing and no body bothers me." then she went on to talk about me having to do a hard job careing for patients in very intimate ways, showing compasion and dealing with personalities etc.

Well we realized it was a good thing we both liked different things and we were grateful for each other. I did not want to do laundry for any salary. She did not want to do CNA work for any salary. Gosh can you even begin to imagin yourself doing laundry for these places? Yitch! Yet she was as happy as though she were in her right mind. (my mother's saying)

I am a nurse. I do not care what type of degree any of my fellow nurses have. I DO care about working with other nurses who are competant, compassionate and are true team-players. PERIOD!

Now, can we all just stop this nonsense and concentrate on what is really important? People are important (patients, families, our loved ones and ourselves included)-NOT DEGREES!!

"I am a nurse. I do not care what type of degree any of my fellow nurses have. I DO care about working with other nurses who are competant, compassionate and are true team-players. PERIOD!"- rachet65

As an individual, that's what I care about, too. But as part of a much larger group-my profession-I am also interested in the advancement of that profession. Then maybe we can "stop this nonsense and concentrate on what is really important? People are important (patients, families, our loved ones and ourselves included)". Then maybe we could give the very best care that we are capable of giving-unhindered by corporate greed forcing us to ration our services, sometimes to the bone, and oftentimes at the expense of the patients we are supposed to be advocating for..

Agnus post 62 and LauraRN post 63---Well said! I was thinking both of those things.

Comments like, why bother, what's the big deal, and it's just a few more credits, come from the way the system is set up, and not the fact that we don't value education and how hard someone works to get that education.

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