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Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 24

toomuchbaloney said:

Does your thinking about her "fear mongering" mean that you think that people aren't fearing for their lives now? Are you thinking that it's unnecessary or unreasonable for people to be concerned?I'm trying to understand and I'm not certain if you are mixing sarcasm in here.

I'll quote myself and you tell me what part you don't understand: On the other hand she could be right. People are feeling a bit unsettled and unsafe because we all know from these well meaning actions about defining gender that violence happens. Hate crimes have risen while other violent crimes have decreased.

I just wonder how necessary it was to say during this service. It's something that I've long ignored and barely been aware of until this year.

edit: I meant unsafe rather than safe.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 24

Beerman said:

No reason for transgenders to fear for their lives because Trump is president or for legal immigrants to fear Trump. So, no reason ask for mercy of behalf of those specific groups but to imply as such.

I think the remarks are a bit misdirected. I think it should be addressed to the populace. It's well documented that hate crimes towards the queer community have been on the rise but much of this rise occurred prior to Trump taking office for a 2nd term. On day 1 he addressed gender issues in what the queer community views as hostile, which certainly isn't going to make people that are fearful feel any better.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/new-fbi-data-anti-lgbtq-hate-crimes-continue-to-spike-even-as-overall-crime-rate-declines

You can Google it but hate crimes against Latinos and Asians spiked. Again, Trump hasn't tamed the fires here either.

toomuchbaloney · Jan 24

Tweety said:

I'll quote myself and you tell me what part you don't understand: On the other hand she could be right. People are feeling a bit unsettled and unsafe because we all know from these well meaning actions about defining gender that violence happens. Hate crimes have risen while other violent crimes have decreased.

I just wonder how necessary it was to say during this service. It's something that I've long ignored and barely been aware of until this year.

edit: I meant unsafe rather than safe.

She could be right?

She is right. People are feeling unsafe because of Trump's verbalized policy and beliefs. As you note, hate crimes are on the rise. That's what makes it necessary to speak out on behalf of the "others." That is what Jesus would do. Jesus wouldn't have kept quiet so as not to upset the bullies and money changers in the temple.

Clearly you know that a problem doesn't cease to be a problem simply because people ignore it.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 24

toomuchbaloney said:

She could be right?

She is right. People are feeling unsafe because of Trump's verbalized policy and beliefs. As you note, hate crimes are on the rise. That's what makes it necessary to speak out on behalf of the "others." That is what Jesus would do. Jesus wouldn't have kept quiet so as not to upset the bullies and money changers in the temple.

Clearly you know that a problem doesn't cease to be a problem simply because people ignore it.

There's a time and a place. She was there to lead a service in honor of the inauguration of a President, not a rally to speak on behalf of others. It's kind of like when winning an Academy Award someone goes off on something political. What they say might be true and right but that shouldn't be the time just because you have an audience.

I'm just not sure with only three days in office I would lay the blame for a rise in hate crimes the last few years at his feet. Republicans and pastors around the country have spewed out rhetoric that causes violence. But surely he adds fuel to the fire.

toomuchbaloney · Jan 24

Beerman said:

The manner in which h she did it, yes.

No reason for transgenders to fear for their lives because Trump is president or for legal immigrants to fear Trump. So, no reason ask for mercy of behalf of those specific groups but to imply as such.

Does this mean that it wasn't the actual words which were fear mongering leftist rhetoric, it was her tone of voice? Body language? I think it's just what the Trump apologists are saying in right wing media without specific context.

Who gets to say what should or shouldn't alarm the LGBTQ community? Straight white male Trump voters? They get to decide what's necessary or needed by marginalized communities?

toomuchbaloney · Jan 24

Tweety said:

There's a time and a place. She was there to lead a service in honor of the inauguration of a President, not a rally to speak on behalf of others. It's kind of like when winning an Academy Award someone goes off on something political. What they say might be true and right but that shouldn't be the time just because you have an audience.

I'm just not sure with only three days in office I would lay the blame for a rise in hate crimes the last few years at his feet. Republicans and pastors around the country have spewed out rhetoric that causes violence. But surely he adds fuel to the fire.

In spiritual matters she gets to make that call about time and place. Hers was a spiritual call to the Biblical walk of a person touched by the divine hand of a merciful God. It was a sermon. Sermons are supposed to connect our flesh and blood lives to our spiritual walk. Powerful Sermons often generate self reflection which is uncomfortable. Her prayer that the leadership touched by God should reflect Godly mercy, grace and humility isn't political, it's Christian. It simply made the Trump entourage squirm as biblical Christian values were held up for examination and the self reflection of the congregants.

No one laid the rise in hate crimes at Trump's feet, that wasn't your intent when you brought it up nor mine when I repeated it. It would appear that Trump intentionally fans flames of animus and division, that's why he told his devotees lies about immigrants eating pets.

Beerman, BSN · Jan 24

Tweety said:

There's a time and a place. She was there to lead a service in honor of the inauguration of a President, not a rally to speak on behalf of others. It's kind of like when winning an Academy Award someone goes off on something political. What they say might be true and right but that shouldn't be the time just because you have an audience.

I'm just not sure with only three days in office I would lay the blame for a rise in hate crimes the last few years at his feet. Republicans and pastors around the country have spewed out rhetoric that causes violence. But surely he adds fuel to the fire.

Well said. I agree.

toomuchbaloney · Jan 24

I disagree that talking about mercy and grace and humility in a prayer service for political leadership is inappropriate. Sermons are often about moral or ethical issues. There's nothing off topic or inappropriate about that sermon. I think what troubles people is that the Bishop directly addressed the most powerful man in the country with her sermon. She acknowledged his power and authority. Most people who feel convicted by a powerful and spiritual sermon are not directly addressed by the minister. The average sinner in the pews gets to feel the conviction of the holy spirit in a more private fashion.

In the spiritual world some would argue that she had a duty to speak this truth when she had opportunity. That certainly was the job of the prophets in the old testament.

toomuchbaloney · Jan 24

I disagree that talking about mercy and grace and humility in a prayer service for political leadership is inappropriate. Sermons are often about moral or ethical issues. There's nothing off topic or inappropriate about that sermon. I think what troubles people is that the Bishop directly addressed the most powerful man in the country with her sermon. She acknowledged his power and authority. Most people who feel convicted by a powerful and spiritual sermon are not directly addressed by the minister. The average sinner in the pews gets to feel the conviction of the holy spirit in a more private fashion. I think that's the problem. I think that people are upset that the Bishop asked Trump to be merciful and compassionate. I think that people expected the bishop to be deferential to Trump and politics in her remarks, cautious rather than biblical and impactful.

In the spiritual world some would argue that she had a duty to speak this truth when she had opportunity. That kind of truth telling to power certainly was the job of the prophets in the old testament.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 24

toomuchbaloney said:

It would appear that Trump intentionally fans flames of animus and division, that's why he told his devotees lies about immigrants eating pets.

True. Those statements did cause some fear and violence there. Parents were afraid to send their kids to school. I'm not letting him off the hook.

Again, time and place.

toomuchbaloney · Jan 24

Tweety said:

True. Those statements did cause some fear and violence there. Parents were afraid to send their kids to school. I'm not letting him off the hook.

Again, time and place.

The time and place was perfect, the fellow came to her house of worship for a prayer and a sermon. He got both.

Just out of curiosity, what would have been a better time or place for a minister to tell him (and the country) uncomfortable truths? I think people are upset simply because Trump is upset. I think the Bishop did exactly as her faith and her scripture would have her do but the political world is not at all comfortable with that power.

It seems that people might be more comfortable had she tempered her spiritual message with political awareness.

The Bible is instructive on the process for offering spiritual correction to a member of the flock and Trump counts himself among the believers. Ephesians chapter 4 tells us to speak honestly with one another as people of faith. To base the language on the scripture and love. The book of James directs believers

Quote

You must understand this, my beloved brothers and sisters: let everyone be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger, 20 for human anger does not produce God's righteousness.[c] 21 Therefore rid yourselves of all sordidness and rank growth of wickedness, and welcome with meekness the implanted word that has the power to save your souls.

22 But be doers of the word and not merely hearers who deceive themselves. 23 For if any are hearers of the word and not doers, they are like those who look at themselves[d] in a mirror; 24 for they look at themselves and, on going away, immediately forget what they were like. 25 But those who look into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and persevere, being not hearers who forget but doers who act—they will be blessed in their doing.

26 If any think they are religious and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Clearly we'll have to agree to disagree. It is obvious that the sermon about faith inspired mercy and humility made the entire Trump family visibly uncomfortable. Their public discomfort doesn't mean that the sermon was inappropriate. It means that lots and lots of people care about how Trump feels and want political considerations to dictate all conduct and speech, even in church. IMV

nursej22, MSN, RN · Jan 24

I listened to a podcast last night describing what officer Michael Fanone endured on Jan. 6. He wasn't even scheduled to work that day, but responded to being called in to assist. He was drug down the capital steps, beaten with flag poles, threatened with his own service weapon, and tased into unconsciousness. He suffered a traumatic brain injury and a heart attack from being tased. One of his attackers, Daniel Rodriguez, who confessed to attacking Fanone with a stun gun had confessed, and was sentenced to 12 years in prison. He had served approximately 1 year, and was pardoned and released this week.

Fanone has filed for protective orders against 5 of his attackers who were released this week.