Why do so many people insist that LPN'S AREN'T REAL NURSES!!?? - page 5

I mean, the title does have "Nurse" in it.So why are so many people insisting that LPN's arent real nurses? When I go to the hospital, I see these people giving medication , care, comfort and other... Read More

  1. by   FroggysMom
    Quote from RNsoon!
    I mean, the title does have "Nurse" in it.So why are so many people insisting that LPN's arent real nurses? When I go to the hospital, I see these people giving medication , care, comfort and other services to their patients, isn't that what nursing is all about? What do you think about this issue? Do you think LPN's aren't real nurses?

    I think in some cases it is an attitude promoted by administration (hospital primarily). We are about to undergo a change in "definition" and probably uniform as well in the near future.

    I'm not so sure what this is going to accomplish except to take nurses who have practiced the 3-C's for many years (caring, compassion, competence) and make them feel like second class citizens. It will also put an undue burden on the staff RNs who we work with every day; after all, someone is going to have to pick up the slack when the LPNS are suddenly deemed unable to do what they have done for years. I suppose a conspiracy theorist might say that it is the first step toward an all RN staff - the RNs will be feeling overworked (and rightly so) due to the extra duties they will have to assume...therefore hiring all RNs in place of LPNs takes on the perfect argument.

    I might be "demoted" or even laid off if I don't get through school in time for the axes start to fall. I love what I do - I look forward to each day - but I'm not so sure I want to fight so hard any more just to do what I love to do. I don't want to see the look on the RNs faces when I tell them that a patient needs something that I used to be able to competently provide, but cannot any more.

    The RNs on the floor all say how badly they feel about the coming changes. They say they feel terrible about it. But they say it to us, not to administration, although I doubt admin will listen much anyway. I wish we could just all quit looking only at degrees and look at the person doing the job.
  2. by   KellieNurse06
    Quote from lindarn
    While I have worked with many fine LPNs, and as I have stated in many other threads, I think that the time of LPNs/LVNs has come and gone. That is why so many hospitals across the country are phasing them out.

    Do you realize that you have less education than Physical Therapy Assistants? Whose claim to fame is walking patients around the unit, or exercising their legs and arms? What is wrong with this picture? Their educational entry into practice is a associates degree, while LPNs and LVNs have only a 9 month program. That is probably where their credibility with the public gets questioned. and probably why many RNs, including me, don't want to be responsible for their patient load, as well as my own. JMHO.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Whatever...........I have a friend who is an LPN ( for 30 yrs) and I can tell you.....she can run circles around any RN, BSN, or even MSN nurse............she has more brains & common sense & critical thinking than any nurse I have ever seen...........plus she has taught me tons of stuff that have helped me as I prepare to become a nurse ...................so an LPN is as equal to me as any level nurse be it RN BSN or MSN.
    I can't stand people who look down their nose at others ................life is too short.
    p.s. There are tons of hospitals around hiring LPN's.........that phasing out story is a rumor and has been for years.
    If it were true......there would be no more LPN schools............PLUS there are many other places to work BESIDES a hospital.........
    Last edit by KellieNurse06 on Sep 13, '06
  3. by   jharris71RN
    Quote from HeatherLPN
    I don't understand why it feels like LPN's have to defend their decision to be "just an LPN". I enjoy being an LPN, and I'm not sure that I will go back. It doesn't mean I don't have teh skills or brains to be an RN, I just choose not to go back at this point in my life. To me, an LPN is still a nurse, still has skills, and an LPN with 20+ years experience is going to be able to teach you a heck of a lot. It's not about the title, it's about how you care for people, whether you're a CNA, LPN, RN or higher.
    Right on!!! I was a LPN for just 2 months short of 15 years when I graduated RN School. I wanted to have more options otherwise I was pleased and proud to be a LPN. A Wise ADON and friend of mine said something that I agreed with and always will " I hate to hear any nurse say ' I am only (just) a LPN" In this day and age regardless of shortages etc. LPN's are just as important and are soon as knowlegeable as many RN's. I know there a scope of practice differences that I understand a little more now but I would never consider anyone Just a LPN or Just a CNA.... its all one department, the largest and the most versital group of employees a business could ever have.
  4. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from lindarn
    While I have worked with many fine LPNs, and as I have stated in many other threads, I think that the time of LPNs/LVNs has come and gone. That is why so many hospitals across the country are phasing them out.

    Do you realize that you have less education than Physical Therapy Assistants? Whose claim to fame is walking patients around the unit, or exercising their legs and arms?
    Please do not denigrate another health care profession, in an attempt to elevate nurses. Physical therapy has its own challenges, and the PTA programs teach a lot more that "walking patients around the unit or exercising".

    Saying that PTAs just walk people is like saying that nurses just hand out pills willy nilly,per the MD orders.
  5. by   MedSurgeMess
    Quote from nursejoelle
    I have encounted this constantly since moving to Michigan a few months ago. In Virginia Bch, I was an Urgent Care nurse and I was a respeceted professional...in Michigan, no one is interested in hiring an LPN except a Nursing Home, and maybe a few hospitals that aren't in my area or that I have not come upon yet.
    All states have differences regarding the scope of practice, so this may be part of the answer. Also, some facilities, depending on how many RNs are practicing in the area, may have the ability to hire more RNs and no (or less) LPNs. Also, due to scope, some facilities don't want to take the time and effort to write policies to help cover RN/LPN situations/scope. I work at a facility that has probably as many LPNs as RNs (almost no CNAs ) and we get along fine....The Magnet facility in the next town has no LPNs and all RN and CNAs. Who gets better care? I think we give better care because our LPNs have many years experience, can do anything a RN can do except assessments, and we work as a TEAM. I just wish we could get our CNAs back, they are a vital part of the equation also. Just my
  6. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from caroladybelle
    Please do not denigrate another health care profession, in an attempt to elevate nurses. Physical therapy has its own challenges, and the PTA programs teach a lot more that "walking patients around the unit or exercising".

    Saying that PTAs just walk people is like saying that nurses just hand out pills willy nilly,per the MD orders.
    :yeahthat:
  7. by   RN34TX
    [quote=nursejoelle]I have encounted this constantly since moving to Michigan a few months ago. In Virginia Bch, I was an Urgent Care nurse and I was a respeceted professional...in Michigan, no one is interested in hiring an LPN except a Nursing Home, and maybe a few hospitals that aren't in my area or that I have not come upon yet. /quote]
    I think that mentality is specific to the nursing culture of that region.
    Not to say that other areas don't have the same things going on, but my experience working in Minnesota as an LPN, and talking to other LPN's who worked in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, etc. it seems that I share a lot of the same experiences as other LPN's who worked in the midwest.

    I wasn't allowed to flush a central line or even change a central line dressing in MN as an LPN.

    If someone brought up the idea of expanding a MN LPN's practice, the next comments seemed to frequently involve a scenario where LPN's were allowed to give IV push meds and ended up killing patients. There was also speculation that the hospitals would then only employ LPN's and have just one RN to charge the floors.

    This of course was the common rhetoric of MNA ( union who represent MN RN's) who seemed determined to keep MN RN's paranoid that LPN's will take their jobs away if their scope of practice gets expanded.

    Low and behold in states like Texas, LVN's give IV push meds and a laundry list of other nursing skills/tasks that are forbidden in many midwestern states, and guess what?

    Not only are TX LVN's not killing patients as a result, they also are not taking RN jobs away as was so passionately predicted at MNA meetings.

    Good luck to you in Michigan. After my LPN experience in MN, I really don't know how any LPN's in that region can stand working there. Way too stifling with very limited opportunities.
  8. by   kristen3g3tp8
    The more education you have... the further you are from the patient :uhoh21:
  9. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    I don't agree with that, and actually to say the more education, the further from the pt. is no better than the remark made about the days of the LPN having come and gone (still rolling my eyes over that broken record from the broken record player).

    People are only "further from the pt." if they choose to be. And even if they aren't right next to the pt., who's to say they aren't making a difference for the pt.
  10. by   kristen3g3tp8
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I don't agree with that, and actually to say the more education, the further from the pt. is no better than the remark made about the days of the LPN having come and gone (still rolling my eyes over that broken record from the broken record player).

    People are only "further from the pt." if they choose to be. And even if they aren't right next to the pt., who's to say they aren't making a difference for the pt.
    I agree that you're still making a difference in patient care... but, it seems as if many of the "little-perks" have gone by the way-side. You know, the back rubs, long conversations, and overall time with each individual patient. With the ratio of patients to RN's, it seems as if a lot of the care that used to bond the nurse to the patient is being delegated to Nurses assistants. I am only in my clinicals, but I've asked nurses if they really have time to get to know their patients... and many of them don't. Also, patients seem to be more familiar with their with the assistant who does the bed bath, or the assistant that comes by to take vitals. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like more education leads to more responsibility... and less time to be able to form a relationship with the patient. :uhoh21:
  11. by   Mama Val
    Yes I know I am a nurse...
    I went to nursing school.
    My ID says nurse.
    People ask my Mom what I do, she tells them her daughter is a nurse.
    But the American Nurses Association says I can't join because I am only a LPN...not a nurse.
    The Alaska Nurses association says I can't join because I am only an LPN...not a nurse.
    My union that backed a NO NURSES ON FORCED OVERTIME BILL SAID I WASN'T A NURSE...I'm only an LPN.
    Sorry but some days the profesionals that you work for and the patients that you work with just don't or won't understand.
  12. by   ckben
    I think that kind of attitude is really sad. I have a bachelor's degree in nursing, and from my point of view, the ONLY thing that determines whether you are a good nurse or not is the kind of person you are. Not your education or your license, just your personality.

    I say this because several of the people I graduated with, who are now working RNs, I wouldn't trust with my own or my family's lives were we their patients. At the same time, there are several LVNs (that's what we call them here) who have the experience, knowledge, and determination that makes them some of the better nurses I've seen.

    I'm not sure what other places are like, but here LVNs get paid about half of an RN's pay for doing the same extremely tough, stressful job, except for admission assessments and care plans. Just doesn't seem right.
  13. by   nuangel1
    i agree LPN's are real nurses.i have worked with several over the years who were fabulous very knowledgeable.when i worked dialysis i was initially oriented by a tech but you know what they are mostly great too really know their stuff.however people are correct that the scope of their practice varies state to state in ma and ri lpn's can not pust meds care for central lines hang blood etc.but i work in an er that has 2 parttime lpns in their fast track dept and for most part it works .but as the rn i have to push all meds etc.we need to support eachother it is a healthcare team we all are at work to care for pt's .
    Last edit by nuangel1 on Sep 15, '06

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