wouldn't it be easier

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Wouldn't it be eaiser for nurses if there were not different degrees in the nursing feild. With all this LPN not able to find hospital jobs, and employers wanting BSNs, and RN thinking that working in nursing homes is beneith them. Anyways everyone basically seems to get their BSNs to be competitive anyways. LPNs are told to get their RN and RN getting their BSNs I feel wouldn't it make sence to just have all nurses get the same education and be on the same playing feild. If everyone just had to get the education of a BSN to be a nurse it would make things so much easier.

That's interesting because every RN-to-BSN I've worked with has told me it was a frivolous exercise in wasting educational $.

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Specializes in CCM, PHN.

Observations:

1) the ones who whine about the BSN are always the ones who don't have it, which just makes the case for the BSN stronger. If more education will get these nurses to stop their crying then I'm all for it.

2) I sit on a hiring panel and I can tell you right now, experience doesn't matter nearly as much as the degree does, because it's ALL. ABOUT. MONEY!!!!! Get it through your heads. Insurers reimburse providers MORE for BSN educated nursing staff!!!!!! Do I agree with this? Sometimes. Do I think some CNAs and LPNs make better nurses than BSNs? Sometimes. Am I positive that this requirement will become the standard, no matter how much you LPNs & ADNs cry about it? YES!!!!!

So you non BSNs, your time is better spent gettin' ir DONE, then sobbing about how unfair life is, avoiding accountability for your choices, blaming better educated people, and picking apart your losing argument that less education is somehow better than more education. You could have spent this time and typing on filling out apps to BSN programs.

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Who's paying for all of this?

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Specializes in Orthopedic, LTC, STR, Med-Surg, Tele.
Who's paying for all of this?

:yes: My thoughts exactly. (after a totally sarcastic SCHOLARSHIPS LOL)

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Observations:

1) the ones who whine about the BSN are always the ones who don't have it, which just makes the case for the BSN stronger. If more education will get these nurses to stop their crying then I'm all for it.

2) I sit on a hiring panel and I can tell you right now, experience doesn't matter nearly as much as the degree does, because it's ALL. ABOUT. MONEY!!!!! Get it through your heads. Insurers reimburse providers MORE for BSN educated nursing staff!!!!!! Do I agree with this? Sometimes. Do I think some CNAs and LPNs make better nurses than BSNs? Sometimes. Am I positive that this requirement will become the standard, no matter how much you LPNs & ADNs cry about it? YES!!!!!

So you non BSNs, your time is better spent gettin' ir DONE, then sobbing about how unfair life is, avoiding accountability for your choices, blaming better educated people, and picking apart your losing argument that less education is somehow better than more education. You could have spent this time and typing on filling out apps to BSN programs.

1) I have a BSN but I'm also a whiner, so your theory would seem to be false. I don't agree that because advancing education is a positive thing, we should ignore all of the obvious problems with the RN-BSN format, with pushing the BSN as entry idea without putting any thought into how that would work, etc.

In fact I believe that if you're a proponent of furthering education you should be critical of anything that gives further education a bad name.

2) Insurers do not reimburse more for BSN educated staff.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

It wouldn't work for many reasons. One most nursing homes are run with LPNS with only one token RN in the building sometimes. LPNs cost less than RN's so nursing homes wouldn't be in a hurry to switch to RN's. If anything LPNs are losing jobs to medical assistants and medical aides who can do the same but are paid less. This is happening both in nursing homes and doctors offices. Even Rn's are finding some jobs replaced by techs for instance. Also I think homecare utilizes more LPN's and CNA's partly because of low insurance reimbursement.

Then it takes longer and costs more to be a BSN RN and most places don't want to pay for the training, just want to take advantage of those who have gone this route and have lots of student loans to pay off! Nurses with lots of student loan debt are going to be more passive, pliable and desperate and forced to work even in bad conditions because the loans must be paid off. It makes no sense to force older experienced nurses to go back for a BSN, neither for the nurses or employers. In most other professions, the older workers are grandfathered in and its the new upcoming workers that have higher hoops to jump thru such as when they changed the requirements for pharmacists to DNP or changed PT to masters degree. Older nurses usually have families and other concerns besides going back to school for a credential such as paying off the mortgage, saving for retirement or paying for their own children's education. I think it would be a disastrous and foolhardy proposition if older nurses were forced to get a BSN especially since most places don't pay any more for a BSN and most places I'm aware offer very little tuition reimbursement. The exception to this is military or VA hospitals. Private industry is too cheap to do this, though they will be happy to take advantage of a happy coincidence that we have a glut of new grads thanks to the bad economy, the nursing shortage hype, and the proliferation of new RN programs across the country. I have read of some hospitals forcing all their RN's to have a BSN by a certain date, I just hope that this does not become a widespread policy as it will hurt many people financially if it does!

I've read a quarter of the population between 45 and 65 becomes disabled. I see plenty of patients in their 40-50's too sick to work and on disability! It is a scary sight and an even scarier thought! Guess what even if you become sick or disabled and unable to work the student loans must be paid back and the govt does and has garnished people's disability and social security! I've cared for a older woman who was disabled and on disability but the student loan companies were still demanding repayment and refusing to accept her disability. It is very difficult to get the student loans forgiven even when you are totally disabled! Even for the less than 1% who get student loans forgiven, they then face a big tax bill as the forgiven debt is treated as taxable income.

I cared for an older patient who was on disability but the student loan companies were still demanding repayment, even after sending them affidavits from multiple doctors. The person was a librarian who was forced to get an MA and then was laid off afterwards and never able to get another librarian job. Just another statistic of an older employee laid off and only able to find low paying dead end jobs until she was too sick to work at all! It happens in many fields from business, to IT, to management, social work, even govt! Whether you are unemployed or disabled, the loans still have to be paid off. So I think anyone going back to school should think long and hard if they can really afford it, especially older workers that may have health problems and are closer to retirement and may face age discrimination. If you must go back to school you are actually better off using a home equity loan or refinancing your mortgage than student loans. The interest rates are much lower and it is fully tax deductible and worse case scenario if things didn't work out you can sell the house or let it go, not like student loans that can be with you till you die!

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Observations:

1) the ones who whine about the BSN are always the ones who don't have it, which just makes the case for the BSN stronger. If more education will get these nurses to stop their crying then I'm all for it.

2) I sit on a hiring panel and I can tell you right now, experience doesn't matter nearly as much as the degree does, because it's ALL. ABOUT. MONEY!!!!! Get it through your heads. Insurers reimburse providers MORE for BSN educated nursing staff!!!!!! Do I agree with this? Sometimes. Do I think some CNAs and LPNs make better nurses than BSNs? Sometimes. Am I positive that this requirement will become the standard, no matter how much you LPNs & ADNs cry about it? YES!!!!!

So you non BSNs, your time is better spent gettin' ir DONE, then sobbing about how unfair life is, avoiding accountability for your choices, blaming better educated people, and picking apart your losing argument that less education is somehow better than more education. You could have spent this time and typing on filling out apps to BSN programs.

Your comments are rude and disrespectful to your fellow nurses. I will take my chances and work on paying off the mortgage and saving for retirement so worse case scenario I have a roof over my head and money to live on! I am fully aware of the risk I may be taking, but feel that going back to school and taking out student loans would be an even more dangerous risk than I'm willing to take! I feel sorry for many people that I know who are mired in student loan debt and still stuck in low-paying dead end jobs. I have seen too many people with BA degrees working as CNA's and secretaries trying to get by on $10-15/hr. Guess what the smart ones go back to school again and become an RN because at least it pays a living wage, but then juggle even larger student loans, sometimes in the six figures! How is that getting ahead?

I'm really sickened by the marketing and the pressure being placed on people to go back to school for a bachelors, completing ignoring the financial dangers involved! There is no guarantee that getting a BSN will save your job or help you get another, but there is a guaranteed risk to your financial future if you don't pay back the student loans. I believe most students, even older, experienced ones; are completely clueless about the dangers of student loans and the fact that student loans have no bankruptcy protections. I think people must be completely informed of the facts before taking out student loans. I think very few people have the financial resources to get a BSN without loans, especially with the skyrocketing cost of college. People should make an informed decision that is right for their life and the life of their families. Please take a look at the book The Student Loan Scam by Alan Collinge before getting in over your head with student loans!

If you default regardless of the reason, unemployed, disabled, whatever you could lose your license to practice and find even your social security or disability garnished until you die! Parent plus loans are given regardless of your ability to repay and there are no income based repayment options with these loans either unlike govt loans for the students themselves. Income based repayment may take 20-25 years depending on when you took the govt loans out. Private loans do not have these options and if you have a co-signer, even if you die, they may demand repayment from the cosigner. These are serious things to think about before rushing off to get a BSN because some hiring panel is pressuring you to do so!

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I have read of some hospitals forcing all their RN's to have a BSN by a certain date I just hope that this does not become a widespread policy as it will hurt many people financially if it does![/quote']

The major hospital system in my area has this rule in effect, but it's for people hired after a certain date so nurses that have worked there for awhile aren't required to obtain the BSN. The rule is 'enrolled in BSN within 2 years and completed within 5 years'.

I think my issue with the BSN is the cost factor, as well. I tried to get into my state BSN program, but it is insanely competitive and I wasn't accepted even though I had a great application. My other options were to commute over an hour each way to school to attend a private college for a BSN or attend the associates program 15 mins from me. I chose the associates route since I was in my mid 20's, married with a young child, we didn't need the burden of access debt and hours away from my child. Now I'm attending the state school I didn't get into originally for their RN to BSN program except I'm not a competitive job applicant since I'm an associate RN attending a BSN program. I'm glad to get more education and I'm glad I didn't have to pay top dollar for a great education.

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There is no standardization of education in the nursing field. I agree with the fact that it should be simpler. No other profession has so many different levels of "education" that basically all do very similar things. MSN will turn into Doctorate, RN will turn into BSN and LVN/LPN will be completely phased out. This similar thing happened to PTs. It used to be a bachelor's level education, but the requirements have increased as time went on. It's inevitable and I think more education is always better...the hospitals also need to incentivize this increase in education by providing a lot more reimbursement to offset the financial burden.

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does anyone know if the latoya health education center is recognized for its lpn programme.i know its accredited?

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The question here should be: Is it feasible to make the BSN the minimum entry to be a RN? Until that question's answered, anything else is utterly irrelevent.

I think it is feasible, but it's naive to think they could just say, "BSN is now the entry" without it having signifigant ramifications. If this happens, everyone's role will change. How could it not?

Look at Canada. They made the BSN the minimum for RN years ago. But they also raised their practical nursing education to more or less equal standing with the former associates RN. And, form what I've read from Canadian posters here, this has lead to an increased role for PNs in acute care. Unlike here in the states, it is common to see LPNs (or RPNs or whatever) working the floor in Canadian hospitals.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the BSN requirement for RNs in Canada is directly leading to more LPNs working the floor and taking their own assingments.

In other words, and pay attention here, nurses with a two-year education are STILL working as the primary nurse in large numbers, in spite of eliminating the two-year RN degree.

The elimination of the ADN in canada has not brought an end to the delivery of care by two-year degreed nurses. Nursing there remains a mixture of two and four year degreed nurses. If LPNs in Canada are taking on the role of the former ADNs and assuming a patient load of their own, what can be said to have really changed?

Mandating that the BSN be the entry for the RN license will not necessarily guarantee that patients will recieve care from a four-year educated nurse. It might simply guarantee that fewer of those nurses are RNs.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Observations:

1) the ones who whine about the BSN are always the ones who don't have it, which just makes the case for the BSN stronger. If more education will get these nurses to stop their crying then I'm all for it.

2) I sit on a hiring panel and I can tell you right now, experience doesn't matter nearly as much as the degree does, because it's ALL. ABOUT. MONEY!!!!! Get it through your heads. Insurers reimburse providers MORE for BSN educated nursing staff!!!!!! Do I agree with this? Sometimes. Do I think some CNAs and LPNs make better nurses than BSNs? Sometimes. Am I positive that this requirement will become the standard, no matter how much you LPNs & ADNs cry about it? YES!!!!!

1) I whine and I have 2...well three bachelors degrees, Nursing, biology and music/music theory.

2) I have been a hiring manager and director and the number of BSN nurses have NOTING what so ever to do with reimbursement....if you have been told that it is urban legend. You are correct however that it is all about money...the experienced RN with a ADN is more expensive to hire than the BSN new grad.

This debate has been in existence since the beginning of time I think....well at least the 35 years I have been nursing (talk about beating a dead horse). 35 years later there are still diploma programs that are successful and their nurses get hired after graduation. Grant it they get hired at the facility where they were educated.....but at least these schools guarantee jobs to their grads and admit a minimal amount of students every year limiting the saturation of the market.

While I think there needs to be a standard entry for all RN....If only to just to stop this incessant bickering...I think the BSN entry needs more clinical time to produce a better nurse.

So you non BSNs, your time is better spent gettin' ir DONE, then sobbing about how unfair life is, avoiding accountability for your choices, blaming better educated people, and picking apart your losing argument that less education is somehow better than more education. You could have spent this time and typing on filling out apps to BSN programs.
While there is three separate entry levels of education....AND....ALL pass the same licensing exam.....It is my belief that they should be given an equal opportunity and not discriminated against....... the different ENTRY level education for the BSN is still ENTRY LEVEL.

I have met plenty of over educated idiots who can't reason their way out of a paper bag.........a "superior" education dose NOT always equal a "superior" individual. For many new grads regardless of the entry degree schooling....the only difference at the bedside is the amount of debt that each student holds.

In terms of "gettin'ner done" I think this profession should control the schools that have proliferate with inferior requirements and have the kahunas to regulate what is being taught and by whom.

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