wouldn't it be easier

VANurse2010 · Jul 31, 2013

Oh my, can we say "can of worms." Easier for whom? I am personally of the belief that a BSN is unnecessary for giving bedside care and this trend is just imposing even more over-inflated and unnecessary education costs on an already severely overburdened education/financing system. There is still plenty of room for LPNs in nursing. Not all nursing care requires RN education or RN skills - particularly in the home or outside acute care (and I also think there is still a place for them in the hospital, but that's not a popular opinion).

mvm2 · Jul 31, 2013

I totally agree with you. It is just that it saddens me when good nurses are looked over because of the degree they hold. Nurses look down on those that don't have as high of an education as they do. Just wondering how we can have more harmony as nurse to nurse. Equal opertunities for all of you. If you want to work in the hospital you don't have to worry that you are going to be overlooked because the next person went to school longer then you did.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Jul 31, 2013

Sorry, but we now have very clear evidence - from very large scale acute care patient outcome studies - that higher percentages of BSN RNs make a significant positive difference in patient care. That is the reason that the IOM made their "recommendation" for 80% BSN RN staff in October, 2010. It's a quality & patient safety issue. Here's a document that provides information. http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Report%20Files/2010/The-Future-of-Nursing/Nursing%20Education%202010%20Brief.pdf I don't believe that these studies have been replicated in non-acute settings, so the recommendation is limited to acute care at this time.

Patient care involves a huge variety of activities. In order to be high quality without sacrificing cost effectiveness, we need to make sure that the 'right' people are doing the 'right' things. It just doesn't make sense to pay more than necessary for any service - which is one of the consequences of just 'raising the bar' on entry into practice. It would be like requiring all employees in a retail store to have an MBA. There is a place for all of us - we can all contribute.

But I do agree - I am also tired of the everlasting conflict over degrees . . . and the disrespect that sometimes crops up in those discussions.

Let's stop this nonsense!! Who's with me?

VANurse2010 · Jul 31, 2013

I'm well aware of the research, but I believe that over time you may see quality of care decline as nursing education becomes less and less accessible to the population, just as a college education in general is becoming.

I have a four year degree - not in nursing - I fail to see how taking some extra courses in "leadership" and community health without extra clinical time or skills training is going to improve my practice. In fact, I consider myself - on the whole in a general sense - more educated than an RN with just a BSN and no other education.

VANurse2010 · Jul 31, 2013

I totally agree with you. It is just that it saddens me when good nurses are looked over because of the degree they hold. Nurses look down on those that don't have as high of an education as they do. Just wondering how we can have more harmony as nurse to nurse. Equal opertunities for all of you. If you want to work in the hospital you don't have to worry that you are going to be overlooked because the next person went to school longer then you did.

I think it should be noted that these types of discussions tend to take place only in places like this and conference rooms. When you're on the floor, few people will know or care which degree anyone has. In fact, I'd go as far to say it would be considered inappropriate and unprofessional to "debate" about this on the floor and differentiate nurses as such in the workplace.

elkpark · Jul 31, 2013

I have a four year degree - not in nursing - I fail to see how taking some extra courses in "leadership" and community health without extra clinical time or skills training is going to improve my practice. In fact, I consider myself - on the whole in a general sense - more educated than an RN with just a BSN and no other education.

Umm, my BSN completion program did require supervised clinical time in community health nursing and nursing leadership/management. There are lots of programs "out there" that don't require any clinical, I hear, but, IMO, people need to make smart choices about programs they choose to spend money, time, and effort on. Don't sign up for a crummy, bare-minimum program and then complain that the program isn't challenging or offering meaningful education, like many people on this site do.

Palliative Care, DNP · Jul 31, 2013

Nursing's largest argument is to be respected as a profession. If that is the case then why shouldn't the necessary education reflect that? I began as an ADN but feel the BSN should be the entry point. I completed an RN to BSN program because if you want to anything further than bedside nursing more education is required. Now I am in a BSN to DNP program because I would like a terminal degree in my field. There are no 2 year programs in pharmacy, physical therapy, or medicine. Two year programs in PT give you a PTA. A meaning Assistant. One of the largest issues with nurses in my opinion is that we can not even reach a consensus amongst ourselves. Why would other professions respect ours when we aren't on the same page?

KJM-RN, BSN · Jul 31, 2013

I'm a new graduate ASN RN that has begun an RN to BSN program, but have not been able to land an interview. Granted I only passed the boards a few weeks ago, but I am extremely motivated and have gone to every hospital an hour from my residence. I have been turned away repeatedly due to not being completed in my BSN program. I chose the associate route because I was rejected from my local state BSN program, where I now attend RN to BSN, (even though I was a competitive applicant) and was unable to foot the bill of a private university. I'm confused why bachelors is so much better when starting in nursing. I understand the need for higher education, just not getting in to massive amounts of debt to achieve this instantly.

BrandonLPN, LPN · Jul 31, 2013

Since nursing has so many levels of acuities in so many different fields, there will always be a need for different levels or tiers or whatever you want to call it.

I agree that having two educational pathways to the same RN license is cumbersome. Something needs to be done about that.

But no one on this board who advocates "BSN only" to the point of eliminating the LPN has ever, ever explained what will happen to non acute settings like LTC. Who will be the nurse in these settings?

And if you're so fired up about advancing the RN role (a noble goal) why are so many so reluctant to accept that this entails giving up a large chunk of bedside tasks? Who do you want to delegate all of this to? Unlicensed techs?

It needs to be acknowledged that a change in the level of education for the RN means that there will also be a chug in the role of the RN. It dumbfounds me that people think that a mandate of BSN only for RN will lead to an elimination of the LPN. If anything, it would likely lead to an expansion of where LPNs are utilized. I believe that a BSN only for RNs would lead to a return of the RN/LPN team model.

miasmom · Jul 31, 2013

Really. There is a place for everyone in nursing. CNA to NP. That does not mean any person is smarter or better. Just means some may have not had time or money for more school. May also mean that they choose to work part time to raise kids or help family. Who are we to judge? Look at all nurses and payiemts as a whole person. Life is not perfect.

amoLucia · Jul 31, 2013

Nursing's largest argument is to be respected as a profession. If that is the case then why shouldn't the necessary education reflect that? I began as an ADN but feel the BSN should be the entry point. I completed an RN to BSN program because if you want to anything further than bedside nursing more education is required. Now I am in a BSN to DNP program because I would like a terminal degree in my field. There are no 2 year programs in pharmacy, physical therapy, or medicine. Two year programs in PT give you a PTA. A meaning Assistant. One of the largest issues with nurses in my opinion is that we can not even reach a consensus amongst ourselves. Why would other professions respect ours when we aren't on the same page?

I agree.