Why is it... (nurses constantly throw jabs at physicans) - page 5

Let me preface this by saying I am around nurses, and nursing students more so I don't get to hear the other side but that being said..... Why do nurses constantly feel the need to throw jabs at... Read More

  1. by   lady_jezebel
    Quote from NP2BE
    Generalised griping, b****ing and moaning isn't professional behaviour, true, but I think a better reason not to do it is that it's not productive.
    We do this to protect ourselves, I think (though sometimes just to moan with frustration). I and my co-workers share info about which docs are helpful & skilled, vs. those who are simply arrogant/unhelpful or incompetent. This information guides the nurse in his/her approach to the doc -- practically, we know whom to call when we need particular orders, whom would appreciate a call regarding pt status, whom rejects every request or assessment finding by a nurse, etc...

    Frankly, many docs openly do not respect nursing judgement and input. Some docs are unbelievably arrogant or oblivious about their patients' feelings and needs. Many nurses leave their positions b/c docs can be such a pain in the rump to work with, for they can make our jobs more difficult and depressing. There is an equal lack of professionalism on the side of the docs many times. It's juvenile, but reality.

    And by the way, this discovery is part of the "reality shock" that faces all nurses who leave school and begin their first jobs. I'm sure it affects NPs too, for NPs/PAs are dumped upon by docs -- they get a lot of the grunt work, from what some NPs in practice have told me. Just suspend your judgement until you actually begin working. It may be a real eye opener.
    Last edit by lady_jezebel on May 23, '04
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    I work at a teaching hospital with a resident program and see resident bashing occasionally. I think that is so hypocritical and doesn't start the MD's off on a good relationship with us. The residents bend over backwards to be nice and profressional to us, at least at this facility.
    Tweety, thanks for this. I've been reading this thread for a few days and I have to finally say that what I think the OP was talking about was what I noticed in nursing school and when I became a nurse and what I still see and that is an attitude of bashing other folks as a whole. There are jerks everywhere, in every profession and to catagorize all people in a profession in a negative manner is unfair and unproductive.

    My work experience is like Tweety's . . . . the docs I work with are professional with the nursing staff, appreciate our work and say so. Sometimes one will have a bad day for who knows what reason and be grumpy but then so are some of the nurses grumpy sometimes and can act a little short with co-workers.

    Guess what, I've met nurses with superiorty complexes but that doesn't mean all nurses feel that way. I had a colleague come to me stunned because she had been berated by a RN who told her that "I'm a RN, I didn't go to school to copy some D$%!N form and hand it over to you". Since when is copying something beneath anyone or just being polite to another co-worker so hard?

    I guess what I've come away with in this conversation is the OP found all the comments about docs to be unprofessional and I have to agree. It is like man-bashing . . . all men are supposedly male chauvinist pigs who beat their wives during the SuperBowl.

    Stereotypes get us nowhere.

    And I like Marie's quote "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent"---Eleanor Roosevelt.

    steph
  3. by   MaryPush
    Just a few thoughts...
    1. Resident doctors HAVE graduated from medical school and are therefore, no longer students.
    2. Why wouldn't someone want to be judged on their spelling (among other things, of course)? I am an educated, professional individual and inattention to proper spelling does nothing to promote that. I'm not referring the occasional typo, I'm referring to consistent misspellings of common words.
  4. by   becca.utns
    Quote from MaryPush
    Just a few thoughts...
    1. Resident doctors HAVE graduated from medical school and are therefore, no longer students.
    2. Why wouldn't someone want to be judged on their spelling (among other things, of course)? I am an educated, professional individual and inattention to proper spelling does nothing to promote that. I'm not referring the occasional typo, I'm referring to consistent misspellings of common words.

    Thank you MaryPush, I'm not going to take someone seriously when their spelling and/or grammar is a nightmare.
  5. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from MaryPush
    2. Why wouldn't someone want to be judged on their spelling (among other things, of course)? I am an educated, professional individual and inattention to proper spelling does nothing to promote that. I'm not referring the occasional typo, I'm referring to consistent misspellings of common words.

    Because there's bigger **** in life to worry about than THAT . But if you've got the time and the interest to critique someone's grammar and spelling, then to each their own, just do not judge.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on May 24, '04 : Reason: ooooooooooop I misspelled! i better correct that before someone sees me as stupid for it!
  6. by   Dayray
    Only read the first page so far so some of this may be repeat but I have to respond.

    1 nurses are not really subordinate to doctors. doctors also are not more highly trained. doctors have more time spent in some fundamentals like chemistry and bio then they have a very broad training as generalists then they have training to do some tasks that nurses don't ie surgery and other things you need to call a doctor for. Nurses are with patients for 8 -12 hours a day we watch them and know things a doctor never could because we observe constantly. If you want to talk about extensive training think about how many hours a nurse spends at the bedside. Yes doctors spend more time in school but nurses spend more time with patients.

    Good examples of this are: As a nurse you will know what a patient looks like just before they die, you'll know what the death rattle is, you will talk about "the look" and understand completely when another nurse tells you this. You will know what is going on with your patient just by walking in the room. doctors will never know theses things. As a nurse you'll do CPR so many times you'll lose count, your hands will know exactly where every med is on your cart, You'll spend 2 hours working a code and walk out of the room beaten and battered to see the family showering thanks over the doctor who just walked in after playing 9 holes.

    As a nurse you will do all you can to protect your patient from impatient and uncaring doctors who care more about their dinner arrangements then they do about their patients. You will have doctors scream at you, or abuse you for no reason and then watch as nothing is done about this by management.

    The reason nurses complain about doctors is that our medical system is flawed. It is flawed because legally the doctor is the one that makes decisions However my young friend this is not the case in reality.

    In reality the nurse calls the doctor and tells them what to do. This will get the nurse one of 2 responses 1 the doc says ok and the nurse writes the order and then does it. 2 the doctor fights with the nurse (too feed their own ego) and then the patient go's without. In either scenario if something goes wrong the doctor blames it on the nurse and everyone is quick to agree because we all want to believe that doctors are infallible and everyone has a financial interest in keeping the doctor from losing their license but nurses are expendable.

    This is a generalization but Doctors are not usually very caring, they are more scientists then care providers. They solve problems and match up assessment data with diagnosis then diagnosis with treatments and write orders. It's up to nurses to do all those things and the doctor won't even be around so the nurse has to watch and then call the doctor with the results.

    Now thats all fine and well except that when ever their is a problem the nurse is blamed and when ever their is success the doctor is thanked. The reason for this is that even though the nurse may have been the one to recommend a treatment the doctors name is on the order and the nurse is seen as an overpaid waitress who mindlessly implements a doctors brilliant orders.

    I am going to tell you a secret that only doctors and nurse know.... we don't really need them. That is to say their are a few that are good and that make patients lives better (that is after all what all this is supposed to be about) However their are many more who went to med school because they wanted to be Known as a Doctor not because they actually wanted to be one. They went into it for themselves not to help people.

    Now the good doctors out there actually care and they realize that nurses are important and treat them that way. the majority couldent care less and treat nurses like trash.
  7. by   Tweety
    Quote from MaryPush
    Just a few thoughts...
    I'm not referring the occasional typo, I'm referring to consistent misspellings of common words.

    Guilty as charged, but read my disclaimer. I apologize in advance. I will not be judged. LOL
  8. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from NP2BE
    How funny..... Touch a nerve here? This is my point, what is wrong with working under phsyicians??? Its reality, no matter how you cut it. But you can try to convince everyone and anyone all day long that its your decision if it makes you feel better. You can suggest treatments for the patients and I am sure the docs take them in many cases, but it is their decision as to what treatment the patient willl receive.
    I would find it difficult to work under "phsyicians" as I rarely if ever see any.

    The doctor can write down all the treatments that he wants, but unless I do them and correctly, what good is it? And I have to make sure it is the right thing for the patient first, too. Not to mention decipher the hand writing/spelling.

    Carolina (the traveler on assignment in Manhattan who had to to teach a intern - take that NY Post - where the foley goes on a woman........and feeling really sorry for any woman that sleeps with him, given his knowledge of anatomy)
  9. by   Energizer Bunny
    Is everyone hormonal lately or what? We are picking on each other for spelling errors? OIY...what next?
  10. by   Truly_Blessed
    They seem to be, lol.
    Quote from CNM2B
    Is everyone hormonal lately or what? We are picking on each other for spelling errors? OIY...what next?
    Last edit by Truly_Blessed on May 25, '04
  11. by   ProfRN4
    Quote from CNM2B
    OIY...what next?
    It's OYE, not OIY!! :chuckle just kidding. Apparently this is an issue on other bb's as well. I'm not the best typist in the world, and no offense, i don't feel the need to proofread my posts. If I catch a typo before I send it, I'll correct it. If not, oh well.
  12. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from bonemarrowrn
    I'm not the best typist in the world, and no offense, i don't feel the need to proofread my posts. If I catch a typo before I send it, I'll correct it. If not, oh well.

    My theory as well.
  13. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from stevielynn
    Tweety, thanks for this. I've been reading this thread for a few days and I have to finally say that what I think the OP was talking about was what I noticed in nursing school and when I became a nurse and what I still see and that is an attitude of bashing other folks as a whole. There are jerks everywhere, in every profession and to catagorize all people in a profession in a negative manner is unfair and unproductive.

    My work experience is like Tweety's . . . . the docs I work with are professional with the nursing staff, appreciate our work and say so. Sometimes one will have a bad day for who knows what reason and be grumpy but then so are some of the nurses grumpy sometimes and can act a little short with co-workers.

    Guess what, I've met nurses with superiorty complexes but that doesn't mean all nurses feel that way. I had a colleague come to me stunned because she had been berated by a RN who told her that "I'm a RN, I didn't go to school to copy some D$%!N form and hand it over to you". Since when is copying something beneath anyone or just being polite to another co-worker so hard?

    I guess what I've come away with in this conversation is the OP found all the comments about docs to be unprofessional and I have to agree. It is like man-bashing . . . all men are supposedly male chauvinist pigs who beat their wives during the SuperBowl.

    Stereotypes get us nowhere.

    And I like Marie's quote "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent"---Eleanor Roosevelt.

    steph

    Just to add a thought to my previous post . . . . we are still talking about all docs as if they do not care about their patients and only the nurses care. That docs are the only ones who get into bad moods and take it out on their co-workers. That docs are bad and nurses are good. Isn't this the OP's original point? That she is hearing all this doc bashing and it simply can't be real. Not all docs behave badly. Not all nurses are saints.

    I work with a physician who, after a delivery of a child, cleans up the room, picks up all the instruments, takes them and the placenta, which he bagged up into the clean-up room. Who mops up blood off the floor. All so the nurse can focus on the baby and mom.

    I know a few physicians who sit at the bedside with their patients who are dying of cancer and hear that death rattle and hug the family when their patient expires.

    I know all the physicians I work with make house calls.

    One physician is a pain management specialist and also is on our hospice committee and regularly visits these patients at home and advocates for pain control.

    For God's sake, the stereotyping that goes on in this thread is kinda making me a bit angry.

    Doctors are not the devil.

    I've worked with bad nurses who couldn't care less about their patient.

    steph

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