petty ? about med student

Nurses General Nursing

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I was working the other day, at the desk- couldn't leave, and a med student came up and asked me to 'get the nurse b/c so-and-so pt. needs to go to the bathroom'. The whole unit was tremendously busy, nurses running! around, our two understaffed aides behind with call lights, ect. The nurse for this pt was behind --tremendously busy. I felt like telling him to do it himself...I saiid, 'ok', and gave him a wary look b/c of that thought. What do you all think? Can they help pts to bathroom?

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
maybe the student has not had any patient contact and was unsure how to help the pt himself and so went for help.

that's the most likely explanation. years ago, when i was working for a harvard teaching affiliate, an hms (harvard medical student, as opposed to the medical students from less prestigious schools who signed their notes "ms3 or ms4" depending on their year) was doing what was probably his first assessment on an actual patient. things were tremendously busy, as usual, and we were short staffed -- also as usual. it was about 10:30 and i was still working on my 9:00 med pass and assessments. the hms came bursting out of the patient's room waving a bedpan and screeching "she's gotta pee, she's gotta pee!"

"so give her the bedpan," i responded without moving toward the room.

"where is it? where is it?"

"in your left hand."

"oh," he said, and looked at it as if seeing it for the very first time. "where does it go?"

one would think that would be common sense!

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When I first took ACLS, a local MD was also in our class. We were doing practice scenarios, it was his turn, so the instructor was asking him questions about how he would do this or that - he said "I'd tell the nurse to do it!"

Nope, wrong answer!:lol2: :lol2:

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt. If the OP knew the pt could get up with assist, she could have suggested that. If the pt needed a bedpan, well the med student could have helped with that. At any rate, no one is above patient care. It's just that you must know what the status of the patient.

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I actually have one surgeon who will take off dressings to see wounds, and ASK for dressing supplies so HE can redress the wound. kinda nice for a change.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
I actually have one surgeon who will take off dressings to see wounds, and ASK for dressing supplies so HE can redress the wound. kinda nice for a change.

Totally amazing! Ours just take the dressing off, leave it in a heap on the bed, and take off. We have to watch to see when they're out of the room in order to know when to re-dress the wound. :trout:

Meanwhile, there's poor Patient, lying there with a limb that has a gaping wound exposed.:angryfire

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

When I was a 1st year RN student I was assigned to a pt with a CT, foley, g-tube, oxygen, IV, and epidural. It was a challenging pt for me. When he had to get up I went to the nurse's station to ask about the protocol for this patient. 2 person assist, how does one manipulate all these things, what about the chest tube set-up sitting on the floor, etc... I was worried I'd do something wrong to this patient and he'd end up with his epidural and his CT pulled out. I started with "Room 15 needs to use the bathroom..." and before I could go any further I was getting my butt chewed for expecting the CNAs to do it and thinking I was above helping him. Sometimes people are very quick to be vicious and jump to the wrong conclusion. I say give the guy a break, just because it's a no-brainer to you doesn't mean it is to someone else.

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Specializes in ER.

Anyone who has seen a med student try to silence an alarm on an IV knows they are completely green- except for what they can memorize from books. It would be more than I would want the med student to do unless the patient was completely independent- but then she would have gotten up herself anyway.

Even an experienced surgeon can totally bludgeon my in/out totals if allowed to play with the pumps. I keep a wooden stake hanging from every pole.

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Specializes in ICU,ER.
Anyone who has seen a med student try to silence an alarm on an IV knows they are completely green

Ha.....

There was a moonlighting resident in a small rural ER I worked in many years ago. He was going to help me out and start the IV/INT on the pt. while I went to get the meds. When I got back to the room, there he was standing there with the angiocath in (no connection to it) and the pt. bleeding all over the place....lol....and the tubing was right next to him.

Oh well, his heart was in the right place.

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Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
maybe the student has not had any patient contact and was unsure how to help the pt himself and so went for help.

Suppose he had just gone ahead and helped the pt to the BR, and unbeknownst to him the pt needed a UA/stool spec.? Then the nurse would have had his head on a pike for that. Or if he'd helped and the pt. really needed an assist x2? He'd have been reamed out if the pt. fell.

Don't automatically assume that because a student asks you to do something it's because he thinks it's beneath him. The med students you haze today could become the attendings who can make your life miserable. Give them a little slack.

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Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

Well...looking at nursing priorities, I would have asked the student that IF they knew how to do it it would be of great help and greatly appreciated, but other than that to please tell the patient that help will come as soon as it is available and if they would like a bed pan (which I am sure unless she is a total hip or such, a med student can do).

Many folks wait till they are about to burst to ask for the bathroom. One of the things I do is let folks know during my assessment to NOT wait for things because it takes a while at times to get to a room when I am doing other tasks. I really express this for bathroom and pain meds! I have them call 10-15 minutes BEFORE a probelm! This is if they are alert and oriented enough, or don't have some bladder/bowel issue that makes that impossible.

Another hint...LOL, I always toliet or change my pts 30 minutes before EOS so I don't have to do that during that crazy time of day! I just do it at the same time as my I/O's :).

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Specializes in Too many to list.
Well...looking at nursing priorities, I would have asked the student that IF they knew how to do it it would be of great help and greatly appreciated, but other than that to please tell the patient that help will come as soon as it is available and if they would like a bed pan (which I am sure unless she is a total hip or such, a med student can do).

Many folks wait till they are about to burst to ask for the bathroom. One of the things I do is let folks know during my assessment to NOT wait for things because it takes a while at times to get to a room when I am doing other tasks. I really express this for bathroom and pain meds! I have them call 10-15 minutes BEFORE a probelm! This is if they are alert and oriented enough, or don't have some bladder/bowel issue that makes that impossible.

Another hint...LOL, I always toliet or change my pts 30 minutes before EOS so I don't have to do that during that crazy time of day! I just do it at the same time as my I/O's :).

Very practical way of doing things.

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I am 3rd year medical student and was fortuitously directed to

this site from a medical student discussion board. I think your

discussion board is great and very respectful of each others'

views!

I know I am very green and feel completely lost half the time.

I don't know what I am doing but I am trying to learn. I want

to do what I can to help without being in the way, making

anyone else's job harder, or harming the patient. I see nurses who

are so good at patient care and want to feel as comfortable

as they do. When a patient has to go to the bathroom and they

have a lot of tubes, foleys, or wires connected, I'm lost on

what to do and worry about pulling on their foley, not

supporting them properly and them falling, or disconnecting

something crucial. Nurses and CNA's are so busy that we're

not sure the best way to ask for help without being in the way.

Thanks for your comments and insight! While a few med students

may think it is "beneath them" to aid a patient, most are

probably clueless as to what to do and would welcome some

instruction on how best to help a patient to the bathroom and

would love to help with IV's or wound care. Please teach us!

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