New nurses wanted. - page 8

I have just read a post in a Nursing Specialties forum on Staff Development that makes reference to the need to recognize and nurture new nurses because the nursing-eat-their-young attitude is so... Read More

  1. Visit  netglow profile page
    3
    I really don't think new nurses want to be kissed and hugged, LOL.

    Peeps, all they want is a fair shot at learning so that they won't kill people. Unfortunately nursing, and all healthcare jobs are based on mentorship once one is out of the book and on the floor working. Being mentored while working with real patients on a constant basis is the only way to learn.

    Unfortunately nursing is one of the most poorly organized "professions"? (suspect use of the word profession). You have too many nurses who after years really know nothing simply because nobody was around to mentor. When you don't know what you're doing, after a while you push back when somebody new to the job comes around, because all sorts of baggage comes from never having learned and having to survive the job - these nurses carry this baggage and will refuse to help others simply because they never were mentored and don't respect themselves or others. These nurses should be kept out of management and educator roles. But the problem is that many push into management and educator roles to get away from the job they never had a chance to learn properly and hate... this is a huge problem. When they are called to educate or lead, they flat out refuse and continue the charade but on a higher level, the pressure is on and situational mental illness comes into play. Gets dangerous for everybody they interact with. They are the absolute worst choices for any kind of leadership role.

    The true leaders are few. Sadly most are now gone having been fired simply because they were that good. A threat to those who will never be. Nursing is going to hell in a handbasket everybody. This thread is proof of that for sure.


    These nurses who will continue to bring us all down are the posters here who "act out" within this thread with their threats toward new nurses.
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  3. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    4
    Quote from milfordmom
    This topic for me is in no way related to being a victim, I'm a survivor in every sense of the word! It's about RESPECT people, respect goes both ways! Ive seen dogs treated better than what some of you crusty old bats treat new nurses. Being seasoned nurse does not give you the right to be *****!!!!! Don"t hide a bad motive under a good one.
    Shame on you!
    While I happen to quite like crusty old bats, I do agree with you about this really being about basic principles of respect and that it needs to flow both ways.

    When a person decides to chuck rocks at a bird struggling to take flight (as some of these experienced nurses choose to do), you may swear up and down that you're doing it out of the kindness of your heart for the sake of instilling motivation, but you and I both know that you're just being a belligerent jerk.
    Last edit by metal_m0nk on Feb 25, '13 : Reason: more appropriate word choice.
  4. Visit  PatMac10,RN profile page
    2
    Quote from nekozuki
    New nurses have no business holding onto a defeatist, victim attitude and wailing, "Nurses eat their young!"

    Buck up, show a desire to learn, be respectful, THANK ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO GIVES YOU FEEDBACK (yes, even if it is critical, devoid of the sunshine and rainbows you think you deserve). Go in with the right attitude, and you will be fine.

    No one is entitled to kid gloves and nurturing. It's nice, but you are responsible for your own success and your own mentality.
    That's right.... and no nurse has no business getting nasty or in w blunder when someone is inexperienced. This is a two way street no matter how you try to contort it.

    Everything you said is truly on point and can be flipped right back around the "otherway". Both experienced and inexperienced people need to get and keep the right attitude, no that people do not always do things your way and that new information is coming out everyday, know that you can always learn regardless of your position. All need to remember that both roles require humility, even though in different aspects.

    In general, inexperience doesn't give you an excuse to gripe, moan, complain, and be rude about insignificant things, but neither does experience.
    lovelylady3 and workinmomRN2012 like this.
  5. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    2
    Quote from milfordmom
    This topic for me is in no way related to being a victim, I'm a survivor in every sense of the word! It's about RESPECT people, respect goes both ways! Ive seen dogs treated better than what some of you crusty old bats treat new nurses. Being seasoned nurse does not give you the right to be *****!!!!! Don"t hide a bad motive under a good one.
    Shame on you!
    From a crusty old bat.....I have to agree. It is ALL about respect and respect is a two way street. While many of new nurses to the field flounder at first....they usually end up doing just fine.

    I like the analogy of chucking rocks at the floundering bird trying to take flight.....and it's true. However there are those that are from the "Everybody wins" generation that don't realize that criticism alone isn't negative and no one is going to praise every thing you do.

    I fault the hospitals that are no longer allotting time and education to the new nurses and as new nurses you should be outraged! I remember that to precept you went to classes, seminars and in-services specific on being preceptors. We were paid...not much, but at least recognized for our efforts. We were allowed to teach and nurture without the burden of another load of our own. we were allowed to mentor and guide.

    Don't blame the experienced nurses that have too much on their plate and expected to teach someone else for no incentive other than getting yelled at or written up because you clocked out late.

    Blame the wolves in administration who are throwing you out of an aircraft without a parachute not caring if you die when you hit the ground because you are expendable and there are 4 other new grads happy to take your slot. Which is sad for you will be the next generation teaching the new.

    We can voice our opinions in an articulate manner......we can all agree to agree to disagree without being disagreeable (Gerald Ford)

    But I really feel bad for the grads of today....you are in most cases not being given the tools and skills for a good start.
    nursel56 and poppycat like this.
  6. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    2
    Quote from Esme12
    From a crusty old bat.....I have to agree. It is ALL about respect and respect is a two way street. While many of new nurses to the field flounder at first....they usually end up doing just fine.

    I like the analogy of chucking rocks at the floundering bird trying to take flight.....and it's true. However there are those that are from the "Everybody wins" generation that don't realize that criticism alone isn't negative and no one is going to praise every thing you do.
    That may be true. But that's no excuse for bad behavior. The only thing a person can control is their own reaction. If someone chooses to react poorly when other options exist, they can and should be held responsible for that.

    Don't blame the experienced nurses that have too much on their plate and expected to teach someone else for no incentive other than getting yelled at or written up because you clocked out late.

    Blame the wolves in administration who are throwing you out of an aircraft without a parachute not caring if you die when you hit the ground because you are expendable and there are 4 other new grads happy to take your slot. Which is sad for you will be the next generation teaching the new.
    Experienced nurses may or may not have much control over administrative decisions and process, but that's not what some of us are talking about here. We're talking about individual behavior, which the experienced nurses have ultimate control over (if they honestly don't have ultimate control over their own behavior, then they probably should not be entrusted with the lives of others - so I will assume that they do).

    Much as he/she might like to try, not even the experienced nurse can legitimately blame administration for his/her behavior, so why should I?
    nursel56 and workinmomRN2012 like this.
  7. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    7
    Too many are missing the point here. Yes, there are experienced nurses who are mean and impatient. There are new nurses who are mean and impatient. There have always been such people and there always will be.

    But this perception that a large percentage of new grads are brow beaten victims and that "nurses eat their young" is just a crutch that scared new grads fall back on when the going gets tough. Whenever I hear someone say "everyone's picking on me" in *any* context, my first thought is that the problem lies with the person saying this. I think this because 90% of the time it's true. If you're struggling with your job and not getting along with your coworkers..... IT IS PROBABLY YOU FAULT. I'm sorry, to me this is obvious.

    "Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality."
    -John W. Gardner
    Motchie_Moo, Ruby Vee, Altra, and 4 others like this.
  8. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    1
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    But this perception that a large percentage of new grads are brow beaten victims and that "nurses eat their young" is just a crutch that scared new grads fall back on when the going gets tough.
    It's all a matter of perspective.

    There are plenty who would say that this line of thinking is just a cop out that experienced nurses fall back on to excuse their bad behavior. Which, logically speaking, does more to perpetuate the issue than does supposed perpetual victim-hood - since perpetual victim-hood is ultimately self-limiting.
    lovelylady3 likes this.
  9. Visit  GrnTea profile page
    6
    Quote from BrandonLPN

    "Self-pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality."
    -John W. Gardner
    ^THIS. The "nurses eat their young" is more about this than anything else. Yes, there are abrupt older nurses and younger ones; yes, there are self-pitying younger nurses and older ones; yes, there are some nursing programs that leave a lot to be desired in the prep-for-reality standpoint (although I see a lot of student postings about how mean it is that they are being asked to care for 4-5 patients 9 weeks before graduation and I think, "There's a program that's trying, and look at the grief they get for it").

    And there are not enough new grads who have the intestinal fortitude they need to enter a difficult field, learn what they need to know in the way they will have to learn it (whether they like that or not), and can, as my kids say, suck it up and deal when the going gets tough. There is no earthly reason why they can't do that. Blaming it on someone else is a waste of breath. Are you stronger than that?

    We are waiting for you. Can you do it? We need you out here.
    ShyeoftheTiger, Altra, nursel56, and 3 others like this.
  10. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    1
    Quote from GrnTea
    Blaming it on someone else is a waste of breath.
    I couldn't agree more.
    ShyeoftheTiger likes this.
  11. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    0
    Quote from metal_m0nk
    It's all a matter of perspective.

    There are plenty who would say that this line of thinking is just a cop out that experienced nurses fall back on to excuse their bad behavior. Which, logically speaking, does more to perpetuate the issue than does supposed perpetual victim-hood - since perpetual victim-hood is ultimately self-limiting.
    I'm not sure I understand. My whole point is that what the "nurses eat their young" crowd define as "mean" and what I define as "mean" are two different things.

    Think about it, the very fact that new nurses eventually outgrow this "it's not my fault" phase kind of proves my point.

    When someone in any profession struggles in the beginning, the knee-jerk reaction is to blame anyone and everyone but themselves. And when said person sees others successfully performing the job they're struggling with, this can morph into panic driven accusations. This is when statements like "I don't finish on time because I do things the right way" or "He only finishes his meds on time because he cuts corners." rear their ugly heads. I've seen many struggling new nurses imply that the only reason more experienced nurses stay on task is because we must be burnt out shortcut takers who don't care anymore. I *hate* that!
  12. Visit  metal_m0nk profile page
    1
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    I'm not sure I understand. My whole point is that what the "nurses eat their young" crowd define as "mean" and what I define as "mean" are two different things.
    That can't possibly be true.

    I'm fairly certain that what each is describing is the exact same behavior.

    The difference is not the behavior, or the definition of it, but the perspective.

    When hearing the perspective on either side of the debate, I try to take into account the natural human inclination to ego defend. The first instinct of a person accused of behaving badly is to deny. If denial proves ineffective because the exact behavior is described and it is generally agreed upon that it can be considered bad behavior from an outside perspective then the second instinct is to blame someone else - abdicate responsibility.

    I know well enough that in MOST ALL phenomena, responsibility is shared between parties and that no issue is ever truly resolved without both parties recognizing their participation in the origins and/or perpetuation of the issue.

    Experienced nurses are not all somehow evolved beyond basic human instincts of ego defense simply by benefit of their nursing experience. They too have the responsibility to recognize their own contribution to the problem. And when I see a handful of people abdicating any and all responsibility for a commonly identified, well defined and well researched phenomenon of which they play an integral part, MY first inclination is to call bull ****.
    Last edit by metal_m0nk on Feb 25, '13
    lovelylady3 likes this.
  13. Visit  workinmomRN2012 profile page
    0
    Quote from BrandonLPN


    When someone in any profession struggles in the beginning
    Exactly, we all struggle in the beginning- don't make it any harder than it has to be.
  14. Visit  PatMac10,RN profile page
    0
    BrandonLPN,

    Your quote:
    "I'm not sure I understand. My whole point is that what the "nurses eat their young" crowd define as "mean" and what I define as "mean" are two different things."

    Is saying the same thing that Metal Monk was, it's all a matter of perspective. Different people will see and interpret things differently according to their position, experiences, and such.


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