Doctors cannot do a nurses job

OCNRN63, RN · Nov 24, 2010

I have been hearing and reading a lot lately about how some Drs are angry that NPs, CRNAs, and other types of nurses "think they are Drs", or think they can do a certain duty of a Dr. I'm sure there are several different reasons for this, some valid and some not.
My intention is not to open a can of worms here, and I am not a nurse so my opinion might not even count for all that much. But I do work with nurses, and in my humble opinion Drs cannot do what a nurse does! They cannot wipe butts with humility one moment, and then respond to a code the next. They cannot deal with being degraded by other staff, family members, and patients.
I just think that nurses have to deal with a LOT of bs, and it's about time that somebody stands up for them and says "No, we cannot do your job, but you can't do OUR job, either!".
Just my

I disagree. I have worked with many doctors who have done quite menial tasks and handled being dealt with harshly by family members with grace and humility.

Doctors are people, just like nurses. Nurses aren't perfect, and there are plenty of nurses who are less than humble. Doctors deal with a lot of BS nurses don't have to deal with. Both roles are needed. Let's not get into a debate about who is morally superior.

nurse2033, MSN, RN · Nov 24, 2010

You are right, they can't. I'm sure they could if they studied like we did though, if they wanted to. The AMA has a long history and tradition of protecting their jobs and positions beginning back in the 1880s. They used their resources to push out other health care jobs like herbalists, midwives and so on, making themselves the only "real" experts. The AMA has opposed every move towards universal health care because that would end the "fee for service" model (that they invented) that makes them so much money. Recently here in Colorado the AMA sued the state to prevent a new law from going into effect that allows NPs to act independently. This is in the face of a significant shortage of primary care doctors that NPs tend to fill. There are even two counties in Colorado without a single primary provider. Don't get me started... Oops too late... The record shows that doctors look out for doctors and aren't helping sort out our health care mess. Nor, as you state, do they seem interested in spending much time at the bedside. (My apologies to any doctor out there who does go out of their way to provide excellent, comprehensive, caring treatment, I'm met them but they seem to be in the minority.) Thanks for saying what a lot of us feel every day.

etaoinshrdluRN · Nov 24, 2010

Sorry that you're frustrated. I see this kind of complaint as human nature, however. When I was an EMT, the paramedics griped when we learned new skills (d-fib, etc) that we were trying to become "back-door" paramedics. As a nurse, I heard a lot of colleagues complain that CNAs and med techs thought they were nurses. But for every jerk of a physician I know, I think I know six others who seem "just folks" and have no problem with humility.

crb613, BSN, RN · Nov 24, 2010

I disagree. All doctors are not jerks anymore than all nurses are wonderful. We are all just people....and all different. I work with a doc that is a pia, and thinks he is always right. He would not "get his hands dirty" so to speak for any reason. I also work with one that is awesome! He will drag them out of the car, start his lines (if needed), and will be sure you are safe, and respected when he is on. He will ask for, and listen to your input regarding pt care..... and yes he can do what I do. Now if your talking about surgeons....well thats a different story! :lol2:

nursing6207 · Nov 24, 2010

Thank you!!! :)

Orange Tree · Nov 24, 2010

I don't think that anyone goes to medical school to "wipe butts with humility".

AprilRNurse · Nov 24, 2010

I guess it depends on the workplace and the dr. I've had dr's who are more than willing to do nurses work. I've also had dr's who are more than willing to admit they they do not know what we do. I appreciate both types as long as they show respect to others around them. I'm blessed with a job where I never feel "beneath" anyone. We treat each other with respect no matter what the position held is.

RNperdiem, RN · Nov 24, 2010

This is a turf battle professions get into when they feel threatened.

Just read the number of threads about MA's calling themselves "nurse" and you will see that this issue is not unique to doctors.

Bobbkat · Nov 24, 2010

ACtually, in my unit the doctor's sometimes do wipe butts and then turn around and respond to a code. It's the ones that then leave my temperature unstable preemie open and unswaddled after examination that get under my skin...

GreyGull · Nov 24, 2010

You could have gone on for another 10 - 12 years to get a degree to become a doctor. There have been several RNs who have and they are sometimes very willing to tell you about the job description and responsibilities that come with it. Yet, several RNs also complain about anyone who has just a BSN or find some reason to thrash the NPs especially those who now have doctorates. And of course we know RNs with PhDs are idiots or so some believe as evidenced by the posts on this forum. You also don't always have to see 20 - 50 patients each day plus all the calls. If you work in the ED and see that many patients, think about how many the physician must see.

Some doctors may also have to remove some object from a patient's butt and then rush to a code right after. They may have to suture a screaming child even though they tried to prevent any pain and then tell a family their child had an inoperable tumor which will lead to death soon. They may have to dig a bullet out of the chest of a young teenager and then put up with an angry patient who thinks the two sutures he got will ruin his life with a hideous scar while screaming "LAWYER". And of course there are the lawsuits and malpractice insurance they must deal with as well as complaints to the board by disgruntled patients. They also have to deal with billing and insurances as well as the stresses of running a practice to keep RNs and other staff employed. You can't always judge someone by "just a task". In some places like Northern CA, the physicians know there are RNs who actually make more than they do. Being a physician is no longer the cash cow or attractive profession it once had been and most know the letters MD does not command the respect it once had. Corporations, pharmaceutical companies and insurances (private, state and Federal) "own" the doctors.

I respect the physician's education and the responsibility they do have. I may not always agree with them but I am more than happy to call and take orders for something I would prefer not to have the responsibility of. I also wouldn't want to be the first person to tell someone that there is nothing more that can be done and the patient should get his end of life plans in order. The physician also has to be very sure about the life ending information he/she presents. Yes, RNs and others are then the ones at bedside once the information is given, but how many times have you just said "you'll have to ask the doctor". For a lot of information, your reply is "you'll have to ask the doctor". How many times have you called a physician back to talk to a patient and many have responded quickly even though they still have another 30 patients to see?

Physicians also probably know the RNs are the best qualified to swaddle the infant and to do the many tasks they have not had time to perfect.

Yes, there are physicians who are jerks but again, by the many threads on this forum there are just as many RNs who are also jerks. Fortunately most of us do know there are just as many and probably many, many more who are respectful and caring individuals. Some also put up a good front to keep from being taken advantage of. I've been around long enough to know a time when females physicians got no respect from either their fellow physicians or the nurses no matter how much they cared or how hard they tried. This was particularly true of those who were surgeons. The same for some physicians who happened to be of a certain color or ethnic background. A very disgruntled nursing unit can also change the personality of a physician just as it has for some of the RNs working there or those who have the misfortune of getting that assignment from their nursing agency.

Didn't we also just have a very lengthy thread about how no RN should ever be asked to make a piece of toast for a patient since that is what dietary aides are for? And then there are the CNA and MA threads.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Nov 24, 2010

They cannot wipe butts with humility one moment, and then respond to a code the next. They cannot deal with being degraded by other staff, family members, and patients.

Then again, I personally know nurses who will not wipe a butt unless Hell freezes over. I know of nurses who cannot function well during a code. I know of nurses who will not tolerate being degraded by families, patients, and coworkers. I know of nurses who lack humility and have swollen egos.

My point is that it takes all kinds of people to make the world go 'round.